premade pc's-overpriced & underpowered

[intergalacticman]

recently, i was looking into a gaming system for myself.
the price on newegg w/o a case (i make my own) is 750$
similar computers cost
dell= 1,300$
HP= 1,500$
gateway=1,450$
velocity micro=1,800$
im glad at my vast knowlege of BYOS, which save me alot of money, but i feel bad for the average consumer who cant tell ddr2 from fsb800

[RSzetec]

Yeah tell me about it, my mum bought a dell with a pentium 4 2.4ghz(i think) 1024 mb ram 150gb hdd and no gfx card cost her 1000, i got mine:2.4ghz amd athlon 64 fx, 1024mb ram, nvidia geforce 5200(not the best but upgrading soon) and pci express + agp motherboard for about 250 pounds

[public_eyesore]

yea, my gaming pc I had a few months ago was like 1500 on the egg, but 2300 from cyber power, and it wasn't even equivilent(didn't have the asus p5w dh deluxe like i had bought).

[Aero]

lol, I bought my PC back in the day when both my parents and I didn't trust me to put it togather myself. That was several years ago, the day before they announced the "brand new" PCI-E cards..which made my brand spanken new $500 9800 XT look like crap...and drop $150...

Anyway, back then Cyberpower had good deals, I got my PC for about $1600 total (thats with my 19 in LCD). But now their prices are worse, plus I would much rather build now that I know how :p.

[bartvandenberg]

Oh.. the beauty of knowing better than to buy a premade computer. thats why those of us who know, dont get scammed.

[tybrenis]

So true. I built my first computer out of old scrap parts when I was 11 and convinced my parents I knew how and wouldn't **** it up. Since then I've always built my own and for a few friends, it amazes me that my dad payed 1500 dollars are Dell for a computer nowhere near as fast as my 700 dollar one.

PS: Bart your sig is way too wide. Not to be a pain in the ass but it when it widens the page for me, I can tell it's over size limits. Read el rulos.

[AKA_RA]

premade anything is usually over rated. its often times a dulled down reproduction of a once great idea, that is mass produced and shipped to best buy or the likes. example: stock modified cases you get on xoxide.com

[Omega]

BYOS? What's a BYOS?

Do you mean... BIOS?


Anywho -- yeah, alot better to make your own rigs =/

[Omega]

BYOS = Build Your Own System

Ah, that answers it.

[Crimson Sky]

Sure, I can build a PC, but would I do it for my family?..No way.

Dells and the like come with warranty and customer support for hardware and software. I refuse to be anyone's PC tech. if you build one for them, they always come back with problems.

[Omega]

Sure, I can build a PC, but would I do it for my family?..No way.

Dells and the like come with warranty and customer support for hardware and software. I refuse to be anyone's PC tech. if you build one for them, they always come back with problems.

And that's part of why premade computers are more expensive.

I personally would build computers for people, and gladly troubleshoot 'em. For a price, of course.

[Zephik]

And that's part of why premade computers are more expensive.

I personally would build computers for people, and gladly troubleshoot 'em. For a price, of course.

Ha, I have a guilty conscious. I wouldn't be able to charge someone that I personally knew. I have too much fun "troubleshooting" anyways, and especially for free. Makes me all warm and fuzzy. ^^


Sure, I can build a PC, but would I do it for my family?..No way.

Dells and the like come with warranty and customer support for hardware and software. I refuse to be anyone's PC tech. if you build one for them, they always come back with problems.

Manufactured PC's don't cost more just because and without reason! That is pretty much why they cost more imo as crimson said. But for ME, I WILL build my own system. I don't need a warranty in case I break something or if I am having PC related problems of some sort. I can fix all of that on my own and for free! :up:

Of course, even though like crimson, I won't build a PC for anyone including family members. I will however give them a helping hand free of charge. Caution is advised though, know what you are doing and how to solve the problem quickly and efficiently. If you don't solve it the first time then they will probably come back to you. If you don't do it quickly, then they will most likely get agitated by how long you are taking and never come back to you.

All in all, I am happy that companies who build computers cost more. I don't know how, but I have a feeling that I (we?) benefit from it?

-SnowFire

[Crimson Sky]

I have a Dell Inspiron notebook that I'm completely happy with. other than that, the remaining 14 computers in the house are built from the ground up ;)

[Omega]

I have a Dell Inspiron notebook that I'm completely happy with. other than that, the other 14 computers in the house are built from the ground up ;)

Christ, Crimson! 14 computers!

There's only (lemme think) 5 working computers in my house... and I have 3 of them (Supernova, some old crappy gateway, and some old crappy laptop).

[Crimson Sky]

nah they aren't all set up at once..I have

Romeo
Hazel
Penelope
JuJuBe (HTPC on 24/7)
Mecanique
Juliette (Laptop)

[Omega]

nah they aren't all set up at once..I have

Romeo
Penelope
JuJuBe (HTPC on 24/7)
Mecanique
Juliette (Laptop)

I never meant on at once, i meant the fact that you have that many to start with...

Of coruse, I'm geussing you keep the cases you mod?

[Zephik]

I have a Dell Inspiron notebook that I'm completely happy with. other than that, the remaining 14 computers in the house are built from the ground up ;)

:eek:

I have three, my dad has one, and then there are my two brothers with theirs. Thats... 6? I have 6 computers in this house. I thought THAT was alot! BUT 14!?? ...well wait a tick. What else would you expect from Crimson Sky!? Thinking of it like that, I'm not that surprised. But all custom built as well except for the lappy? Still, even if we are talking about Crimson, thats pretty sweet. lol

The only custom built computer in my household is mine and it's only a half breed! I'm still using that horrid Dell Mobo and PSU. :hurt:

[Crimson Sky]

yeah i always think building my own PC is economical--then I'm like...****...I forgot to price out the Case, PSU and OS..BAM!! $350 more.

[Omega]

yeah i always think building my own PC is economical--then I'm like...****...I forgot to price out the Case, PSU and OS..BAM!! $350 more.

Haha, there is that, somewhat. Depends on the case/PSU.

Because I only really need one PC, I just keep using that version of XP.

[DaveW]

Dells and the like come with warranty and customer support for hardware and software. I refuse to be anyone's PC tech. if you build one for them, they always come back with problems.

Damn right. For me it's usually 3 months later.

"This computer's broke! It's too slow!"
"Ok. That's all the pr0n you downloaded, mixed in with all that spyware."
"You didn't do it right!"
"Oh sorry, i should have made it moron-proof. I guess idiot proof wasn't enough."

...i don't mind doing it for people who i've never met to be frank. It's people who try and scam you for tech support that get on my ****.

Oh, and Minty? Read the very first part of the rules please.

-Dave

[ajmilton]

yeah i always think building my own PC is economical--then I'm like...****...I forgot to price out the Case, PSU and OS..BAM!! $350 more.

pfft. i've seen your mods. case by itself is $350 more. :P if not in parts, definitely in labor

:)

[Crimson Sky]

Really don't mean to go against TOS, but I am using a 'illegitimate' copy of windows XP.. I have the little star by my clock "Your System may be at risk..." but with AntiVir & Zonealarm, I never have a problem.. I had to fill out some **** for MS, before it would let me use it, I put all my personal info in there, I didn't lie.. I figure if Bill Gates has the balls to try and sue me for 150$, Then the negative publicity he would get from it, would be well worth the money.. Plus I didn't want to pay for a brand new OS that's about to be outdated (Then the new OS was called 'Longhorn', not Vista...).. So I never pay for an OS.. I'm surprised I don't have more probs with my PC, but I have CCleaner, I defrag once a week, virus scan every other day, and zonealarm is pretty constant (unless I am playing BF2).. Anyway.. Just my $.02..

-Jeremy

Very few computer enthusiasts are squeeky clean when it comes to software use, I'm not about to go into that in this thread.

Besides Bill gates doesn't need "Balls" to go ahead and sue your ass. All he will need is some lowly software piracy lawyer, one of hundreds they keep on retainer all over the world and in every city for users like you. And if this lawyer decides to make an example of YOU, 5 years in jail and a $250,000 fine will not put him in any bad spotlight. It will destroy any career you decide to pursue in computers or as a street cleaner.

I personaly don't have the luxury of saving $150 for an OS, I have to buy them. I'm not about to risk my reputation or my bank account. Or my family's bank account.

[Airbozo]

I must say that I am "squeaky" clean when it comes to software. I may be the only one that I know of. When you have something to lose besides the $150, it becomes a very big deal. But then again my wife does side contracting as a recruiter for startups and other small-medium sized businesses, and I do consulting for several small companies, so we have lots to lose $$ wise.

Crimson is right about the $$. M$ will not come after you for $150. That is the start of it. They then tack on perceived loss of revenue, court costs, lawyer fees, and fines and penalties. Plus you are out your time and reputation. M$ has rooms full of lawyers that need something to do besides fight anti trust laws, and you would be a great diversion...

I also refuse to build "standard" systems for family and friends. Mainly for the support issue. Nothing sucks more than having a relative call you during dinner for support on the system you helped build for them, that they NEED to have working right now! Once or twice is not too much of an issue, but I guarantee that at the worst possible time something will go wrong and even if it was their own fault you will end up looking like a bad guy.

Recent conversation with my brother-in-law (who really is not sure which end of the screwdriver to hold onto):
b-i-l: "I would like to build my own system, what kind of parts do you recommend?"
me: "Call Dell."
b-i-l: " I want my own system that performs well and looks nice."
me: "Call Dell."
b-i-l: "I don't want a Dell, I want my own custom system."
me: "Call Alienware."
b-i-l: "They are really expensive, I think I can do better on price."
me: "I charge $65/hr for system build with a minimum of 5 hours. No refunds, 30 day free support. After that I charge $135/hr for support between the hours of 9-5 and double that for emergencies and nights and weekends, with a minimum of 2 hours per call. I will also charge $200 for parts consulting, you buy all the parts. When would you like to get started?"
b-i-l: " I think I'll call Dell."
me: "Good idea!"

[Computer-Geek]

I also refuse to build "standard" systems for family and friends. Mainly for the support issue. Nothing sucks more than having a relative call you during dinner for support on the system you helped build for them, that they NEED to have working right now! Once or twice is not too much of an issue, but I guarantee that at the worst possible time something will go wrong and even if it was their own fault you will end up looking like a bad guy.

Recent conversation with my brother-in-law (who really is not sure which end of the screwdriver to hold onto):
b-i-l: "I would like to build my own system, what kind of parts do you recommend?"
me: "Call Dell."
b-i-l: " I want my own system that performs well and looks nice."
me: "Call Dell."
b-i-l: "I don't want a Dell, I want my own custom system."
me: "Call Alienware."
b-i-l: "They are really expensive, I think I can do better on price."
me: "I charge $65/hr for system build with a minimum of 5 hours. No refunds, 30 day free support. After that I charge $135/hr for support between the hours of 9-5 and double that for emergencies and nights and weekends, with a minimum of 2 hours per call. I will also charge $200 for parts consulting, you buy all the parts. When would you like to get started?"
b-i-l: " I think I'll call Dell."
me: "Good idea!"

lol :p

[intergalacticman]

lol so true, my mom bought a comp w/ everything you need for gaming, except it had integrated gfx, which was right when i understood how integrated is a pain in the ass, so ive done some major mobo upgrades since then. BYOS is also intechangable with BYOPC: build your own PC. and tybrenis, your signature is better than bartvandenberg's, so change it before you tell other people to change theirs. anyways, the sam principle goes for laptops, they are overpriced ,and none ( except the dell xps) pass 2.5 GHZ
and you cant even upgrade them easily

[Aero]

lol so true, my mom bought a comp w/ everything you need for gaming, except it had integrated gfx, which was right when i understood how integrated is a pain in the ass, so ive done some major mobo upgrades since then. BYOS is also intechangable with BYOPC: build your own PC. and tybrenis, your signature is better than bartvandenberg's, so change it before you tell other people to change theirs. anyways, the sam principle goes for laptops, they are overpriced ,and none ( except the dell xps) pass 2.5 GHZ
and you cant even upgrade them easily

yeah, laptops are knid of a pain. But, if treated well, they can last. Also, warrnety's are nice on somthing you through in your backpack on a day by day basis.

Also, I believe that his signiture was larger before and he has since changed it. I would recommend watching your additude toward your fellow modders. I believe you have been warned once before about this. So please try to be alittle nicer around here.

[AKA_RA]

Sure, I can build a PC, but would I do it for my family?..No way.

Dells and the like come with warranty and customer support for hardware and software. I refuse to be anyone's PC tech. if you build one for them, they always come back with problems.

Word.

In my experiance, if I build a PC for someone and they have issues, regardless of what they did to it, its my fault and I have to fix it. Like when my parents got MsBlaster or whatever it was. Obviously it was my fault. :rolleyes: Just not worth it in my opinion.

[tybrenis]

lol so true, my mom bought a comp w/ everything you need for gaming, except it had integrated gfx, which was right when i understood how integrated is a pain in the ass, so ive done some major mobo upgrades since then. BYOS is also intechangable with BYOPC: build your own PC. and tybrenis, your signature is better than bartvandenberg's, so change it before you tell other people to change theirs. anyways, the sam principle goes for laptops, they are overpriced ,and none ( except the dell xps) pass 2.5 GHZ
and you cant even upgrade them easily

I am aware of the fact that my sig is oversized. I have talked to the mods about it and it is fine with them, so if I were you I'd watch your mouth and attitude to other modders on here, looks like you've all ready lost quite a few rep points.

[Crimson Sky]

Tybrenis is on the TBCS Team so he can pretty much do whatever ;)

[tybrenis]

Tybrenis is on the TBCS Team so he can pretty much do whatever ;)

=D Thanks, Crimson! :banana:

[Omega]

Tybrenis is on the TBCS Team so he can pretty much do whatever ;)

Yeah, I was just about to say that, heh

I don't think too many people mind Ty's sig or any other TBCS Staff member's sig unless it gets stupidly large.

[bartvandenberg]

yah sorry about the sig guys. honest mistake. thought itwas the same size as my last, but.. clearly wasnt. i like the fix someone gave me though. had a good chuckle about that...

[Crimson Sky]

Bart I was just messing with you when i changed your sig....was trying to get the point across without having to ask a second time :)

[Airbozo]

Tybrenis is on the TBCS Team so he can pretty much do whatever ;)

Double-oh tybrenis. License to sig.

[tybrenis]

Rofl!

[intergalacticman]

Double-oh tybrenis. License to sig.

lol nice , ok dudes, i would build a pc for anyone, but, thats why you need to buy the highest rated parts, like the 5 star ones at newegg. Customer service is a nice touch, but it usually results in long hassle for you and the underpaid customer service reps. i forgot to factor in XP in my latest mod, and i had to use ubuntu 5.10 for about 2 month before i could get xp home.

[CanaBalistic]

Tybrenis is on the TBCS Team so he can pretty much do whatever ;)

I thought the reason for small sig's was for faster page loading for people on slow connections. I wasnt aware this was a communist run forum...

Anyway, back to the topic...

My mom recently got a MGD.ca Computer. Its got some decent specs but way too overpriced for my taste. All in all, she'll be paying $2800 for the system and 21'' widescreen LCD. One thing that got my attention right away is that they changed the video card from a x550 to a lower end x1300AIW. Im surprised they put old equipment into thier flagship line of gaming computers. I was thinking of getting a system from them untill i found out that thier garbage systems. A comparable system would only cost $1500 with a top of the line GFX card


I got my computer from "generic computers" in van city. It was top of the line when i got it and it only cost me $900. I've upgraded a whole slew of things since but its still a good computer for gaming and anythign else i've ever tried to use it for.

[Crimson Sky]

I thought the reason for small sig's was for faster page loading for people on slow connections. I wasnt aware this was a communist run forum....



That is exactly the reason, and it also disjoints the pages on lower res screens. and yes, I'm the dictator :smoker:

[intergalacticman]

yeah, its ridiculous, no wonder mike dell is a billionare. i dont even flip through computer store catalogs from the newspaper anymore. its embarassing to see them pass off a amd duron processor, 512 megs of memory, and integrated graphics for aprx 900$ where is the world headed these days..


That is exactly the reason, and it also disjoints the pages on lower res screens. and yes, I'm the dictator :smoker:

just a reminder, were talking about pc's , not debating about whos sig consumes the most bandwidth.

[simon275]

I find alot of computers from dell have powerful processors and RAM but have intergrated graphics.

[DaveW]

just a reminder, were talking about pc's , not debating about whos sig consumes the most bandwidth.

Watch your mouth. You're giving lip to the guy who wrote the book on custom computing, and also the guy who owns this business/website.

-Dave

[AKA_RA]

I am aware of the fact that my sig is oversized. I have talked to the mods about it and it is fine with them, so if I were you I'd watch your mouth and attitude to other modders on here, looks like you've all ready lost quite a few rep points.

what is with people and their poor attitudes recently? i dont mean to point out any one person, becuase it is not one perosn. also, its rubbing off on me. -_- ive resorted to making a mod out of near nothing just so that maybe some real modding conversations come up, so far its not working. i wanna see some real peices of art.

[Crimson Sky]

I should have apologized for the OT comments. My bad. Please resume topic :D

[DaveW]

i wanna see some real peices of art.

Well said.

-Dave

[monoflap]

My take on the pre-built computers is that its generally a good idea if you don't know a whole lot of computers and you want a warranty. I think where the bang for buck factor goes down the tube is when you buy a so called "high end" pre-built computer. Companies such as dell can take advantage of people who don't know a whole lot by saying "Well of course its that much, its the best". Personally though, I dread calling tech support, I'd much rather try and fix the problem myself than stay on hold for about half an hour and then feel bad for asking the guy on the line to repeat himself ten times :dead: .

[intergalacticman]

I find alot of computers from dell have powerful processors and RAM but have intergrated graphics.
yeah i agree, they are equipped with core 2 duo's and 2 gigs of memory and 500GB of hdd space, but fail to mention integrated graphics

[intergalacticman]

woe is the average computer user

[isunktheship]

Dells have their Pros and Cons. I personally like to build computers, so I do.

Dell Pros:
1.) Warranty, even if you messed your computer up Dell will fix it.

2.) Parts, chances are that if there is a new part out Dell will build you a cheap computer with that part... that's the great thing about being a big company; big discounts.
Ex: My friend bought a Dell with the 24'' monitor, 2 GeForce 7950 Gt's, with the 2.9 core 2 duo, during a sale, with a coupon. The whole thing costed less than $1500. He could resell the parts and make over $2000.

3.) Reliability. Much due to the fact that you have a Dell warranty. (although my friend spilled soda over his laptop, and Dell didin't replace it claiming "You had a 3 year warranty, but your accidental insurance was only 1 year".)

Dell Cons:
1.) While you may have an awesome system, you can't upgrade a lot of it. Dell mobos are customized to fit the case; meaning you can't upgrade your mobo :(.

2.) Not that you would upgrade your parts through Dell, but if you did, you pay out the a$$. I just checked their memory, and 1Gb of ddr 3200 memory is over $130. You can easily get the same thing off Newegg for $50.

3.) When you do end up buying a new computer, you also buy a new case, psu, OS, cd drive. If you built your computer to begin with you will save your cash in the long run.

I built my computer originally for $800, that was about 6 years ago. I upgraded my computer little by little over the years, and spent maybe $2000. In the long run I saved bank.

4.) Finally, you don't get the joy of building your own computer.


Also, Crimson, I agree with you on building computers for family. When people come to me asking me to build them a computer, I remind them that Dell has great deals + warrantee. Despite my advise, I have built 2 computers for my roommates, and I may be building 3 more. I love building computers, and wish I could get a summer job/internship with a company that did so.

[CanaBalistic]

The one major thing that allways gets me about pre built systems is thier complete lack of system spec's. Sure they'll tell you the basics, cpu speed, ram in MB, HD in Gb, ect, ect... I'd like to see in depth specs. I want to know what the model number of the processor im getting is. I want to know the ram timings. I want to know what chipset is on the mobo... Without that stuff, the general public looses out. You cant check to see if you can find a cheaper or better system without knowing whats what.

[isunktheship]

Yeah, that's a major drawback.

You later find out that you didn't get SATA HD's, and that your memory is DDR2 5000 or some crap like that. Dell is getting a little better at it.

What I love is when I say, "Dell is okay, but I build my gaming machine on my own", and then people respond saying, "Oh yeah, that's why I'm going to get Alienware. Dell = Alienware!

Has anyone checked out the Dell AMD rigs? I've never used AMD in my own system(s), but I have built a few with AMD cpu's.

[blue73]

The one major thing that allways gets me about pre built systems is thier complete lack of system spec's. Sure they'll tell you the basics, cpu speed, ram in MB, HD in Gb, ect, ect... I'd like to see in depth specs. I want to know what the model number of the processor im getting is. I want to know the ram timings. I want to know what chipset is on the mobo... Without that stuff, the general public looses out. You cant check to see if you can find a cheaper or better system without knowing whats what.

Is'nt that why pre-made systems come with a lack of specs. They're made for convienience not for PC monkeys like us. In depth specs are for PC builders not for the average person that might feel the need to buy a PC on friday night and nip down to PC World or Wal-Mart on saturday and while doin the shoppin pick up a desktop along with the grocerys. I do agree about the price of some though. Rip off springs to mind, though saying that vendors like Aldi who sell the Medion brand for peanuts are makin a killin. So somebody's buyin them.

[intergalacticman]

yeah, definatley, the amount of specs needed to truly evaluate the performance of a machine, would confuse and ultimatley discourage the average consumer from buying a computer, which isnt hp's or dell's goal


Is'nt that why pre-made systems come with a lack of specs. They're made for convienience not for PC monkeys like us. In depth specs are for PC builders not for the average person that might feel the need to buy a PC on friday night and nip down to PC World or Wal-Mart on saturday and while doin the shoppin pick up a desktop along with the grocerys. I do agree about the price of some though. Rip off springs to mind, though saying that vendors like Aldi who sell the Medion brand for peanuts are makin a killin. So somebody's buyin them.

[CanaBalistic]

I recently visited a rent-to-own store and was looking at the computers they had. The best one they had was pathetic and a whoping $3800 lease buy out to boot. All the guy could tell me was "this is our gaming model with a fast pentium dual core processor with 1 Gb ram". There wasnt a video card or sound card in it and it had a PATA HD....

My system right now could run circles around that machine in any game and a system like mine goes for about $500 nowdays. Jeesh.

[Zephik]

I recently visited a rent-to-own store and was looking at the computers they had. The best one they had was pathetic and a whoping $3800 lease buy out to boot. All the guy could tell me was "this is our gaming model with a fast pentium dual core processor with 1 Gb ram". There wasnt a video card or sound card in it and it had a PATA HD....


LOL

Thats just disgraceful...


My system right now could run circles around that machine in any game and a system like mine goes for about $500 nowdays. Jeesh.

LOL

Thats the spirit!

Mine could probably do that as well, it's not even a "gaming" machine. :laughs at whoever buys that thing:

-SnowFire

[Airbozo]

I recently visited a rent-to-own store and was looking at the computers they had. The best one they had was pathetic and a whoping $3800 lease buy out to boot. All the guy could tell me was "this is our gaming model with a fast pentium dual core processor with 1 Gb ram". There wasnt a video card or sound card in it and it had a PATA HD....

My system right now could run circles around that machine in any game and a system like mine goes for about $500 nowdays. Jeesh.

This is how the rent-a-centers make any money. IF you go through with the full rental, you will pay something like 3x what you could have bought the item for at any other retail outlet. The reason that they charge so much is that a customer will use (say the computer) for many months, then "forget" to pay the bill and let it go into default. The company then comes to pick up their property (most renters rent many items at once) and finds out it is damaged. They then cannot rent the item out and have to sell it as used (if it even works). The end up making money on both the rental, and the sale (since they can write it off as damaged).

If you ask me the rent-a-centers are the worst parasitic companies on the planet.

[intergalacticman]

wow, paralell ata is for pre 2002 hard drives, and now reserved for cd drives.





I recently visited a rent-to-own store and was looking at the computers they had. The best one they had was pathetic and a whoping $3800 lease buy out to boot. All the guy could tell me was "this is our gaming model with a fast pentium dual core processor with 1 Gb ram". There wasnt a video card or sound card in it and it had a PATA HD....

My system right now could run circles around that machine in any game and a system like mine goes for about $500 nowdays. Jeesh.

[intergalacticman]

i dont know if you realize this, but im seeing a pattern here, the computer stores charge exorbitant prices, and emphasize on processing power and RAM, but fail to mention graphics and specifics, such as AGP or PCIx16, or DDR vs DDR2. this is probably aimed at not confusing their consumer base, and generating maximum profit.

-all's fair in capitalism