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jonopaul01
03-19-2005, 06:17 AM
I have decided to post some information here about memory latency. I came across this subject on a thread posted by me about my future Graphics Cards (http://www.thebestcasescenario.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48). It was sugested to me by Chapel that perhaps I should get Dual Channel Memory (May write an explanation sometime once I have figured it out). I found some and he then suggested that I should perhaps get some with lower latency. I was not quite aware what latency was (I had read one explanation in my gaming magazine, NAG). I have done some research and have posted all my findings here. Please notify me immediately, if anything I say is incorrect. Incorrect information is dangerous information.
Please feel free to add any information about Latency but please do not clog up this thread with reviews of different memory modules. If you want to give reviews of how good different memory is please make a new thread. Of course I can't force you to so be courteous. So to the review

My main source was Extreme Tech (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1637763,00.asp) which is a great site for most things PC hardware related. They an excellent review of how much latency affects a computer which you can access via the above link. Now to the explanation.

When you see a stick of memory advertised you will likely see 4 or 3 numbers. The Rule is the smaller the number, the better the memory. The numbers on a stick of DDR1 memory will likely look something like 2.5-2-3-5. Each of these numbers has its own meaning. The explanation of these is a bit technical if you are not aware of the way your computer works. However all you have to understand is the fact that your computer does things in clock cycles. Each time your CPU does a computation this is called a clock cycle. However your memory also has a clock speed. This is what you see when it says DDR333. It means that the memory can be accessed at 333Mhz. This is substantially slower than your average CPU and 333 is a bit slow for memory these days. So if your memory, like mine, has a 333 MHz rate then your computer can access 333 million computations a second . This is large amount which means that a clock cycle does not take a long time. If I have worked this out right then it takes my computer 0.000000003 seconds to do one cycle. In other words it takes 30 billionths of a second.
The numbers on the memory all tell you how many memory clock cycles it takes for the memory to be accessed. So you may think that it takes barely any time at all to access data. And you would be right; it takes nearly no time to receive a single piece of data. However when you are grabbing the huge amounts of data vital for running of games it starts to slow things up. This is when having low latency memory modules can speed things up. There are different processes of retrieving memory and just to confuse you someone decided to reverse the order in which they are written. They way that it works is as follows.
The numbers stand as follows CAS-tRCD-tRP-tRAS.

CAS: Coloumn Acess Strobe. An important thing to understand is that memory is that individual pieces of memory are saved in column and rows. The first thing the computer does is select the row and it then selects the column that it is in. Because of this, the column is the last thing that the computer does. However it is also the thing that the computer that does the most. Because of this the speed at which your memory selects the column affects the speed of your computer. Basically you want as few cycles here as possible

tRCD: RAS to CAS Delay. This is the amount of time that it takes between the Row being selected and the first Column being selected again in clock cycles. This does not have a great affect on the overall performance on the memory as the column is not reselected very often

tRP: RAS Precharge. This is the amount of time that it takes for one row of memory to stop being accessed and another row being accessed. This only has a great affect when you have a program that spans a large number of rows. However most games span a large number of rows so this does come into play when playing games.

tRAS: Active Precharge Delay. This is a confusing process. Basically it is the amount of time that it takes from when the memory receives the signal to retrieve or write and for it to actually select the Row. This does not affect the performance that much unless there is a large change in the memory stored such as starting application.

So in chronological order tRAS – tRP – tRCD – CAS. Of course tRP does not necessarily need to be used if the memory is already accessing the right row. In that case tRCD won’t be used either as a column will already have been used. So really the only thing that truly affects the performance of the memory is the CAS. However how much this truly affects the performance is questionable. If you are interested in how much Latency affects your performance then check out the link that I have included at the top of this post to the extreme tech website.

I hope this helped someone and please ask any questions you may have or any mistakes you have spotted (I have included two, lets see if you can spot them).

Chapel
03-21-2005, 02:13 PM
Exelent post. Once i put my head back together (from the explosion from reading all that...) ill try reading it again to futher grasp my concept of memory latency...

Nice work

jonopaul01
03-21-2005, 05:42 PM
Thanks. I try. I will try and add a few more reviews of different aspects of memory and other parts of computers once I have some spare time.

Chapel
03-21-2005, 06:23 PM
Since your tackleing this topic ill let you decide (that and since youseem to know more than i do). But maybe you could post what in yoru opinion is the worst/best memory to purchase. Possibly off of a major site, like newegg.com

jonopaul01
03-22-2005, 02:41 PM
I would love to but I am afraid that I do not have memory flowing in and out that quickly so I cannot say that I know a lot about different memory. Of course if anyone would like to sponsor me with a couple of modules I will be more than happy to test them out for you. I will write up a review when I get my new DDR2 memory saying whether things are faster or slower, whatever.

ZeD
03-22-2005, 10:16 PM
that is quite an excellent post. If you would like more technical info on memory check out the Corsair website and look around for their forums. check posts by the memory man? or some guy along those lines.

Seven
03-23-2005, 02:00 AM
Remember, latency is not the only factor when buying RAM.

You also have to take into account speed, chip make and model, and a few other things like cooling etc.

If you plan on overclicking, make sure you get some decent overhead speed. Not many mobos support PC4200 FSB speeds, but those ram chips were practically made for overclocking at high FSBs. Just because a mobo doesn't "support" PC4200, doesn't mean it won't work. You will simply have it running at PC3200 speeds or whatever.

7

jonopaul01
03-23-2005, 01:33 PM
I agree with you that latency is not the only thing to worry about when buying memory (in fact according to Extreme Tech's research it has barely any effect, at least not enough to warrant the extra price) but I only wrote this thread about Latency. If any one has anything that they would like to know about just about anything computer related then I can research it for them and post it here. I am currently doing some researchon LED's and how they work (bit boring so I may not post it) but I will be happy to help any one
who has a query. Would anyone like me to research the elements of memory that Seven talked about?

Frakk
03-25-2005, 02:12 PM
These are the properties of the modules you want to consider:

Latency: as jonopau described it, latency or timings is the delay between two processes at a specific row, or coloumn. you can change the latencies in the bios, the lower is better, but if you set too low, you can burn it out. lower latencies bennefit AMD systems more because of their lower FSB compared to the Intels.

FSB: the speed of the transfer rate between the memory and other components such as the cpu and videocard. pc3200 refers to 200mhz, which is 400ddr. different motherboards support different speeds, which are mostly affected by the cpu you are running. you can also set the fsb in the bios with the latencies. the Front Side Bus is the easiest way to overclock your cpu. however, latencies and the fsb are dependent on eachother. lower latencies(faster) mean lower fsb(slower). relaxing the timings will help you reach higher fsb speed, and the other way if your chipset and cpu supports it.

Dual Channel: there is no such thing as a dual channel memory. it is a platform your motherboard supports. the way of dataflow. single channel handles the module(s) as one, even if there are more. as the name says, there is only one channel the data can flow just like a 2 way lane on the highway. in dual channel mode, the chipset is handling the two modules separately, like on a 4 lane highway, cars(data) can move faster and efficiently on the different lanes. while one module is being filled with data, the other module can be accessed by the cpu to read. Dual channel can bennefit high latency modules, for example while the one stick is emptying the data for the next set, the other stick can be prepared for writing, therefore the time preparing to write is not wasted.

hope I made it somewhat more clear for you guys :)

jonopaul01
04-01-2005, 11:00 AM
Thanks, that was most helpfull, Frakk. It can be quite confusing, all the different things that affect the way that memory works. I am just waiting till my funds allow me to buy 1Gig of DDR2 memory. I have to say though that all the DDR2 memory I have seen so far has very high latency, something like 4-4-4-12. Although the research shows that latency does not affect the performance that much, I am still a bit worried about whether this could create performance issues. I suppose that the high clockspeeds that the memory runs at should cancel this out. Anyone know anything about DDR2 latency and how much it affects performance? Please post anything you guys know. [Edit] There is another topic which is discussing this topic about DDR2 here (http://www.thebestcasescenario.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153). Please post all your thoughts about DDR2 related latency etc. there.

Frakk
04-01-2005, 03:16 PM
latencies affect speed only to a certain point. there are many other factors affecting speed and data transfer. just like clock speed with processors. think about amd and intel. amd's run at a lot slower clock speeds, but they are faster than intels. same with the memory, latencies are not everything, you have to consider the fsb, their clock speed, the motherboards and cpu's memory processing (intels are faster than amds when it comes to memory processing-except the fx series) and things like this. ;)

fishies
04-01-2005, 03:45 PM
Between Jonopaul and Frakk, we have a guide in the works here.