liquid wiring

[intergalacticman]

ok guys me and my friends were working on the sr-71 case, and we were theorizing innovative mods. is not water an excelent conductor of electricity?
what if, your wires were minute pipes of water??????? the pros would be slim,
and if there was, a leak in your system would short it out, and rust or change into oxygen and hydrogen.
but seriously? it would be cool

[NamesAreUseless]

water itself isnt a good conductor so u might need to ad some salt to make it work.

[Slug Toy]

yes you would need to add stuff to the water to make it conductive. the only thing i can think of that is a down side is the fact that running electricity through something like salt water will do strange things to the ions... chlorine gas may form in the "wires". if you electroplate things, you run into the same problem. i like coating pennies in silver and stuff... you usually get the chlorine gas, and as that comes out of the water, you start getting sodium hydroxide, which WILL conduct, but may have some negative effects on electrodes (eating away at them).

[DaveW]

There are other liquids that can conduct, but i see where you're going with this. It's an innovative idea just waiting for someone crazy enough to try it.

-Dave

[tybrenis]

That's a pretty neat idea. As Slug pointed out, there are obviously some problems with ionized water, but another liquid could make for some sweet mods... glowing "cables" that are actually UV dyed fluid.

[Omega]

Hmm...

You all are giving me ideas...


hehe...



Anywho, yeah, the base idea is great. Thin-diamater tubing with really ionized liquid (salt water or otherwise) would be cool, but not ideal. Of course, spending hundreds of dollars on the aesthetics of computers is cool and not ideal...


Gentlemen, start your dremels.

[AKA_RA]

they had this really nice conductive "ink" or something like that in the days of old athlon overclocking. you literally had you paint your processor to short the L2 briges and get the sucker unlocked. before the ink, no joke, we only needed pencils. lol

[Zephik]

This sounds pretty cool, but I think it wouldn't be worth your trouble in the end. I would guess it would take months to years to "perfect" it and even then it most likely won't work as well as wires.

Just stick with UV reactive coated wires and save yourself a whole bunch of trouble and, most likely, disappointment. But it really was a great innovative idea! Cheers for that much! :up:


before the ink, no joke, we only needed pencils.

HA! My old youth pastor knew how to do that pencil stuff. I wasn't really paying attention at the time though. Does anyone know of that in more detail? Where, How, Why, etc?

-SnowFire

[Maz]

all you need for good electron conductivity is a weak acid .05 molar HCl would be a good bet. then find something that can take the corrosion for a good period of time.

[Omega]

all you need for good electron conductivity is a weak acid .05 molar HCl would be a good bet. then find something that can take the corrosion for a good period of time.

Well something like lemon juice might work, perhaps.

but yeah, some sort of actual, concentrated acid would work better. as for metals that can take corrosion, i have no idea. but hey, that's thinking a bit far into the future -- we don't even have liquid wires yet.

[Omega]

they had this really nice conductive "ink" or something like that in the days of old athlon overclocking. you literally had you paint your processor to short the L2 briges and get the sucker unlocked. before the ink, no joke, we only needed pencils. lol

Ahh, graphite. Wonder material of days, both old and new. We write with it. It can be used as rocket nozzles. It can be used to unlock old athlons.

Will it's uses ever end?

[Slug Toy]

all you need for good electron conductivity is a weak acid .05 molar HCl would be a good bet. then find something that can take the corrosion for a good period of time.

there are two metals that will not corrode. gold and platinum, and both are skyrocketing in price for some reason. another problem is the fact that hydrochloric acid eats away at things even under normal conditions.

you really want a salt where the cation has a tendency to form a basic compound in water that is equal and opposite to the anion's tendency to form an acid. even when you find a suitable salt... running electricity through it changes everything. like i said with normal table salt... if you run electricity through that you get chlorine gas and sodium hydroxide forming. almost all salts will do something like that.

you compound this problem when you take into consideration that you're going to start stripping metal off the anode and depositing it on the cathode. i think platinum is the only metal that can resist that, and now we're talking about big money for platinum electrodes.

and finally, one other thing to consider. will the current be able to flow through a solution as readily as in copper wires? some power supplies are capable of about 40 amps, and i dont know if salts can handle that. i havent exactly tested it either, but it doesnt seem likely.

[AJ@PR]

Ahh, graphite. Wonder material of days, both old and new. We write with it. It can be used as rocket nozzles. It can be used to unlock old athlons.

Will it's uses ever end?
You can set it on fire and cook your food.

You can use a specific 'version' of it for lubrication.

You can compress it with The Hammer of God and end up with diamonds.

You can write the side-walk with it.

((( this reminded me of the following:::

<fireserve> !is the cumulitve mutiplication thing
<Benoit> ! is lots of things
<fireserve> like 6! = 6x5x4x3x2x1
<Wolfman_Dain> ! is the programming term for "not"
<Benoit> ! at the end of a sentence can also mean
exclamation... or so I've been told
<fireserve> and if you flip it upside down and put one
at the front, its spanish
<Benoit> !, is there anything it cant do?

))))))

[Murader]

if you do something like this Engrave the wires into two peices of Glass (then press together and Seal) becuase thats the only way it will be really cool is if you can see it. Glass with Hold up to a light acid.

[chedabob]

Why not just use non-conductive liquid, and put really thin wires throught it? :P

It creates a sort of illusion.

[SgtM]

Innovative, though I believe it would be highly impractical. +1 rep for thinking outside the box.

[Chel]

Ahh, graphite. Wonder material of days, both old and new. We write with it. It can be used as rocket nozzles. It can be used to unlock old athlons.

Will it's uses ever end?

ha I used it the other day to mod my Ultra D to SLI lol..but then I later fried the mobo by plugging the USB cable in the com port :hurt:

Anywho Im no scientist or anything but the idea is neat sounding.

[GT40_GearHead]

and yet again we come back to mercury

wouldn't work, it would be bloody heavy but it would work..... i think,
slug, what do you have to say ?

[AJ@PR]

and yet again we come back to mercury

wouldn't work, it would be bloody heavy but it would work..... i think,
slug, what do you have to say ?
Mercury.... hmmm...

Dangerous... check!
Toxic... check!
Exotic metal... check!

I believe we have a winner!

I like Murader's idea... maybe not for the ENTIRE connection, but it would be very cool to have 'channels' in the glass "sandwich" conducting electricity.

[Slug Toy]

you know, i think mercury is the only practical conductive liquid... even though its risky business. maybe its just the fact that i like mercury...

no matter what you use... glass "tubing"... plastic... paper... the fact remains that you still need metal electrodes to pass current, and those electrodes are going to break down over time because of the simple fact that there is a mass transfer from anode to cathode when you use a salt or acid or base solution. thats also why i like mercury, because it solves that problem.

not even graphite can save you this time either. graphite electrodes hold up slightly better than metal, but at the end of the day, you'll have a nice black precipitate and no more electrode.

mercury is a winner, providing you dont go an eat it...

[Zephik]

Wasn't there a company that was going to do mercury for liquid cooling systems?

I like the idea of having wires in tubes that have water passing through them to create the "illusion" of liquid wires. I don't suppose wires get very hot do they? Liquid "cooled" wires might be kind of cool? I was watching MythBusters and they had hooked up alot of christmas lights to a power extension cord or what not and it ended up melting the plastic and burning out the wires. I wonder if liquid cooled wires would prevent that or propose some other kind of benefit?

-SnowFire

[intergalacticman]

wow guys i like the innovative ideas,
it seems that gold and platinum are the best for contacts and mercury is the best for liquid, in a few months im going to make a prototype.
wow im stoked i made a diagram that is kinda what i think your saying

[Slug Toy]

well if you plan on actually doing that, i would highly recommend using thin tubes full of mercury. that way, you dont NEED gold or platinum electrodes, you can get away with aluminum or steel or whatever you have that fits. not to mention the fact that im 100% confident that mercury can transmit the current needed, versus only about 50% confident that salts can do that.

you know, now that i think of it... i wonder if they make plastic capillary tubes that are reasonably flexible. ive used the glass version, and those definitely wont bend... unless you feel like using heat to form them and fuse them to longer lengths. anyways... my point is that capillary tubes are really thin (about 1 to 1.5 millimeters in diameter) and are clear, so you get the effect you want.

[Maz]

its not platinum, but carbon isn't as bad as it sounds as an electrode. maybe you could use NaOH+HCl =>HOH+NaCl

a compound that is fully ionic to begin with going to another ionic compound. both not very corrosive (NaOH and HCl cancel out (i think)).

And since water is there to begin with and its a product, both are aqueous solutions. just need the resistance, and it almost seems feasible. just figure out a series of steps that lead to producing NaOH and HCl from salt and water and you have yourself a continuously recharging system supplied by energy from the source. but that is the tricky part. I love/Hate chemistry.:glasses:

[Slug Toy]

well heres the problem with NaOH + HCl, the NaCl product is in an ionic equilibrium where the Na ions contantly form a small portion of NaOH again, and the Cl ions do the same to form a bit of HCl too. if you look up the ka (acid constant) of Cl ions, and the kb (base constant) for Na ions, you'll see that theres always a bit of NaOH and HCl present even in a salt solution. the canceling each other out part is only an acid-base neutralization, and doesnt extend to forming an inert salt.

again, carbon doesnt stand up at all. ive used all sorts of graphite electrodes to try and find something that will last a reasonable amount of time. it just doesnt work. the graphite breaks down into a carbon precipitate in the solution, and there goes your anode.


a compound that is fully ionic to begin with going to another ionic compound. both not very corrosive (NaOH and HCl cancel out (i think)).

be careful here.

a) yes they are ionic. thats implied by the fact that you call them acids, bases, and salts. if they didnt ionize in solution, then they wouldnt be acids, bases, or salts anymore, would they?

b) not very corrosive? HCl is the third strongest acid next to nitric and hydrofluoric. NaOH is also very strong, next to potassium hydroxide, rubidium hydroxide, and cesium hydroxide (note the pattern that the stronger bases are just more reactive metals from the same family in a hydroxide form). NaOH is so strong in fact, that it sucks water out of the air, and will almost instantly dry your skin out and give you a chemical burn. the only thing is that NaOH ISNT corrosive, its caustic which is sort of like corrosive, but for bases.

i wouldnt want NaOH or HCl floating around in my liquid wires. im still sticking by mercury.

[DaveW]

It can be used to unlock old athlons.

Holy sh*t, I remember that trick! It's amazing what people use to do this stuff. Still remember not believing it the first time i saw it.

-Dave

[t3hninja]

Straight mercury would be the ultimate in badassery and anti-environmentary. But seriously, I dont particularly recall the conductivity of mercury, but can you imagine liquid metal running through the wires of your case?
You may have to have a "Soiled yourself?" Cleanup section, though, which is another couple hundred

[ESX]

Today I thought a lil' bit about this idea, and this is what I came up with: Wouldnt these wires be just for beauty? Because I dont think they can get thinner than regular wires I.E. the IDE cable.

[Maz]

But if you have a low molarity of the two, you know, a diluted solution, the acidity would be drastically reduced. (sometimes when I get on a rant I forget to mention parts). I'm thinking that it would be cool if two panes of glass with grooves ground into it with a diamond grinder. if you were to fill the grooves with the solution, then place another piece of glass on top of it. it would etch the glass and look killer. Even over time I don't think that a low molarity of HCl and NaOH would etch enough to cause a leak.

How would you cap the ends? tar- like substance? Ceramic?


and yes they would be for beauty, just like painting your case.

and your talking like gold is impossible to get as an electrode... buy a cheap gold plated earring, same with platinum or silver.

[intergalacticman]

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o147/intergalacticman/liquidwiring.jpg

substitute gold/platinum with copper

[intergalacticman]

it youd be hard to make reasonable sized ide cables like this unless you have 1337 skills in miniturization

[Slug Toy]

and your talking like gold is impossible to get as an electrode... buy a cheap gold plated earring, same with platinum or silver.

ok, you have a point there. i honestly wasnt thinking in those terms, i was thinking about getting solid gold rods or something. yes you could probably get some cheap gold plated stuff, but the risk with that is the metal underneath could actually corrode because the plating may be too thin. i had a pack of those gold plated studs, and they rusted because the plating wasnt good enough.

again.. one small thing. silver isnt inert like gold and platinum. in fact, theres something called the tollens test to check for aldehydes, and it forms an explosive mixture with silver precipitate in it.

so, intergalacticman, that design you have looks alright. heres a suggestion though. having the sealant on the end of the electrode is basically putting an insulator there. youd be much better off having the sealant on the sides of the electrode. i mean... with the sealant on the end you're cutting off the electrical connection.

[intergalacticman]

so, intergalacticman, that design you have looks alright. heres a suggestion though. having the sealant on the end of the electrode is basically putting an insulator there. youd be much better off having the sealant on the sides of the electrode. i mean... with the sealant on the end you're cutting off the electrical connection.

well it was kinda supposed to go around the copper ,not go between the mercury and the copper, its mainly to stop any deadly outbreaks of mercury flooding

[Slug Toy]

i know, because as soon as mercury gets out... all hell breaks loose. circuits fry, swarms of locusts show up, meteors come raining down, and everyone in the world just... catches fire.

[simon275]

The mercury if it leaks will react with the aluminum in you case and make a nice big hole. But that would be the least of you problems because if you got a whiff of it you go mad and die.

[Slug Toy]

nah its not that bad... mercury doest just fume away at room temperature.

[simon275]

nah its not that bad... mercury doest just fume away at room temperature.

I was under the impression it did.

Now that I look at wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_%28element%29

It ways the boiling point is 356.73 degrees. or 674.11 fahrenheit.

I was under the impression it did produce fumes at room temperature. Hmm:?

[Slug Toy]

maybe just a VERY tiny bit. its just like how water will still evaporate even if it isnt boiling. in this case its probably even less than water because mercury really likes to stick together.

[simon275]

Yeah like when you drop a thermometer and there are all those little beeds.

But wasn't the reason the mad hatter was mad because he polished his hat with mercury and inhaled it?

They talked about using mercury in a liquid cooling system in an atomic magazine. But it would be expensive and dangerous.

Here is something really cool. It is a fountain surrounded by glass. But instead of water in the fountain it is mercury.

http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/pix/bar/miro/Almaden1.html

[Slug Toy]

well the mad hatter term came about because thats what they used to treat beaver pelts with to make those top hats. it wasnt inhalation, it was just absorption through the skin from handling the pelts. believe it or not you can get mercury poisoning after you handle it for long enough (long as in years... not minutes).

[Maz]

and that is the reason why I don't like mercury. but if you put it in a sube, wouldnt it look like its a wire with clear insulation, but silver instead of the common copper? seems ridiculous to use a toxic substance in place of a green alternative. and no im not on the ion kick again, but instead just saying why use it for wires when you could just string some al wire through some plastic tubes, heck, even melt some al down with a crucible and pour it into tubes so it looks like a liquid...

[intergalacticman]

heck, even melt some al down with a crucible and pour it into tubes so it looks like a liquid... WTF???
wouldnt that melt through and short your computer, yeah, i dont think that will work

[Maz]

by the time you got it to the computer it would have solidified in the tubes, leaving no air trapped with it. and of course let it cool...

[DaveW]

Before you guys start getting high on god knows that sort of fumes, check out this article i found. (http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/phy00/phy00846.htm)

-Dave

[zitwep10]

And also I think that you guys got away from the main idea of the idea. I think you wanted liquid wires so they look cool, transparent, react to UV and all that fancy jazz, and now you have come to the idea of using mercury, well mercury looks like metal (duh) and in transparent tubing it'll just be dark gray, so it would give you much estethical beauty, if someone can come up with UV reactive mercury, then that's cool, but with just mercury your wires wont look much different than normal wires.

That's my two bucks on the topic.

[Enzo]

In an add on to your possible Liquid Wiring Idea I had a spot of idea myself. If you could find a liquid capable of producing a consistent current. I'm fairly new to this so I'm sorry if this sounds dumb but if you had a water cooled computer simple connect the power supply with a wire to the resevoir of liquid, and then have all other components connect to the water aswell. If not a water cooled computer just put a box with water in it to connect to. It might look kool with all the wires going into the resevoir and appear to not be connected. Just a thought

[zitwep10]

I actually might talk to my chemistry teacher about this and ask him if I can test out various things in the lab.

[Enzo]

Im doing some testing now i'mg oing to incorporate it in my first mod if i can. The only thing is that with so much electiricty transfer the liquid cant be affected by the electricity. Water would not work since it changes into Oxygen and hydrogen when an electric current is put through it.

[cbelmo159]

well actually water isnt as conductive as you think. you would need to add something to it.

[Omega]

well actually water isnt as conductive as you think. you would need to add something to it.

Water is still conductive, unless it's de-ionized.

[Slug Toy]

electrolysis of pure water can and will get you hydrogen and oxygen... it just doesnt pass currents very well.

[Maz]

doesn't electrolysis need to be DC current? what if you ran AC through it?

[Slug Toy]

AC wont do anything because its passing electrons both ways 60 times a second. DC is what you want.

[Maz]

thats the point.