Computer "Upgrading"

[xRyokenx]

Hey Guys,

I recently built a new computer, with help from progbuddy, and I was wondering if this watercooler and video card are any good, as I'm planning on overclocking so that I can play Oblivion on my pc, along with a few other games, as 1.4ghz is, in my opinion, too slow, but at least it's better than my old crap 700mhz AMD with some random 32mb video card and 128mb RAM. I have the schematics of the PC in my signature.

Here are the links:

Video Card: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814141038

Water Cooler: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835103006

[Fear]

Lol haha finally progbuddy did something. Look let me be strait up with you. Please do not buy a 6800. These are outdated. Save you're self a future of crying you're self to sleep when you find out that you can't handle oblivio non max settings. Buy a Saphire X1600. I recentley bought hat for my AGP system off Mikeroq for $80. You can buy one for a LITTLE over $100. Its ATLEAST 2x better then that card.

[DaveW]

With Direct x10 literally just around the corner, i'd wait till Febuary if you can, or even late January, for when the prices plummet like rocks from a plane.

-Dave

[AJ@PR]

....for when the prices plummet like rocks from a plane.
There are SNAKES IN THE MOFO PLANE!!!!!


(( sorry, I just had to be a total n00b and post that. :) )

[Mitternacht]

pfft, you're such a n00b AJ....

haha, but honestly, do you think you can get a 1.4Ghz procesor to hit 2Ghz? If so, I've never heard of it.

[xRyokenx]

Well, considering that it's technically supposed to be 1.8ghz, it should... according to progbuddy it should hit around 2.4ghz or so, but knowing him... it might not.

About the Sapphire X1600 (it has to be PCI, not PCIe), could you send me a link? I flat out detest searching on the web... not enough patience, which I use in school dealing with stupid freshmen for half the day...

If I can't overclock it fast enough (considering I don't melt it), I'll just sell it to progbuddy, who lives about 10 minutes away. If anyone has any good deals or knows of any for an AMD socket A cpu, let me know... and nobody's yet told me if that water cooler is any good.

[monoflap]

I have a 2800+ and I'm running it at 2.3Ghz with an after market heat sink. With water cooling you could hit 2.4. However, at that point you're already beyond the 3200+ which is the fastest one they made so I doubt you could get much further. But heck, I've never tried, go for it.

[simon275]

Lol haha finally progbuddy did something. Look let me be strait up with you. Please do not buy a 6800. These are outdated. Save you're self a future of crying you're self to sleep when you find out that you can't handle oblivio non max settings. Buy a Saphire X1600. I recentley bought hat for my AGP system off Mikeroq for $80. You can buy one for a LITTLE over $100. Its ATLEAST 2x better then that card.

no way

The 6800 is supperior to the x1600 just.

If you read this the x1600 manages more 3dmarks but the 6800 gets higher in game frame rates.

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/230/10

The 2x is an exaggeration if you go on 3dmarks for power it is only 12.5% more powerful. But some games the 6800 can pull ahead by 5%.

It really is a mixed bag while the 6800 is supperior go with the x1600.

I pulled this up as I wanted ajutz21 to upgrade knowing all the info and not just conjecture and personal opinion.

[xRyokenx]

Thanks Simon, so the X1600 is better than the 6800? The main question is still which will play Oblivion better... and I'll have to look for a reasonable card (unless the one I found really is good, progbuddy liked it) that's compatible with AGP or PCI, and within my price range, which apparently has been magically expanded to around $150. Also, is there any way to hook up two cards to one monitor? That way each could draw half the screen... or is that not really economic?

Take note that I'm still quite inexperienced and just need a straight out "this card is better," or maybe even pros and cons of each card listed out, I tend to get confused easily... which is the reason I don't like politics.

Still, nobody has yet said whether or not the water pump I have the link for is any good...

[simon275]

Like I said its a mixed bag. But for more FPS in Obilivon. The 6800gt will sqeeze out more fps in Obilivon. I tested Obilivon on my 6800gt at 2560x1024 and got 9 fps. So the game runs fine at 1280x1024. While the gpu on the X1600 is more advanced the the 6800 has more vertex and shader pipelines. So 6800gt wins in Obilivon.

With water cooling system I poked around online a bit. A good air cooled system will do the same or better than that system. You can put an aftermarket fan and heatsink on the graphics card. Like one of these it will do a better job than that watercooling unit. And plus this is $20.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835186132

With water cooling you have to go all the way and spend like $300 to see cooling that beats aircooling.

[xRyokenx]

So, in other words, the 6800 would be better? Also take note that the highest res on the crappy monitor I have is 1024x768, which is good enough for me anyway, if I want the settings real hard core I'd just buy an Xbox 360, even though I don't really like the controller that much, it doesn't really matter... I could also probably overclock the gpu on the 6800 and hook up that heatsink you posted the link on, or would my current CPU heatsink work? It's probably too big from what I can see.

So, go with the 6800? I've already found that one and it looked good to progbuddy (whom I will from now on refer to as Kevin) and I.

Another question: could I hook up the water pump to my current heatsink and it not cause any problems, such as condensing, here's the heatsink I have:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835185123

And another thing, can I have dual channel with two different brands of RAM? I have the Kingston ValuRAM, but I think I might also be getting some hardcore mushkin RAM too...

Another question, does leaving a computer on and not shutting it down for a long time affect it in any bad way? I'm just curious.

[Redundant]

Another question: could I hook up the water pump to my current heatsink and it not cause any problems, such as condensing, here's the heatsink I have:

What do you mean by "hook up the water pump"? An air heatsink cannot be turned into a water block as far as I know.


Another question, does leaving a computer on and not shutting it down for a long time affect it in any bad way? I'm just curious.

Leaving the computer on does not hurt it. Think about servers; they are left on for months and it doesn't hurt them. Your wallet may hurt from having a higher electric bill though...

Haven't a clue about the RAM but I would think no.

[jdbnsn]

And another thing, can I have dual channel with two different brands of RAM? I have the Kingston ValuRAM, but I think I might also be getting some hardcore mushkin RAM too...


I don't think you would benefit much from this. As I understand it, when you combine two types of RAM you run a higher risk of stability issues and the fast RAM will be limited to the speed of your slow RAM. So it would actually run faster to remove the slow RAM and replace it with faster RAM than to combine them. I think...

[xRyokenx]

By "hook up" the water pump to the air heatsink, I mean mine has copper tubing in it so that I could if I wanted to, the only problem is that it doesn't have the plastic on the outside of where it contacts the CPU. If my grandpa didn't order the RAM already, then I'll just get the same thing that I have.

Here's the heatsink I have, it's kinda hard to see the copper tubing in the pics, but it's there:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835185123

Here's the water pump, let me know if it's good:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835103006

The Mushkin RAM is actually a couple bucks cheaper, than the Kingston ValuRam, so it might be about the same, but I'll try to get similar DIMMs of RAM.

Edit: I just looked, the Kingston and Mushkin RAM that I've been looking at are pretty much the same, just different brands, so saying "hardcore" was kind of inaccurate.

Another Edit: Would the onboard video card add at all to a video card in the AGP slot, or would it not do anything?

[xRyokenx]

Here's another card that's basically the same as the other, but with double the RAM and memory interface. It's $25 more after rebate, so getting this is a no duh choice, right?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814141026

[Ronyx]

you got that right. the GT is lower then the XT in specs. It's like comparing a 7900GT to a 7900GTX. Same card with slightly higher performance =]

[xRyokenx]

I had decided to see if they had anything better, and lo and behold, they did, and for what, $25 to $45 more? The $20 rebate can go towards a better heatsink for the vid card, as the one on it (according to the abundant reviews) is crap.

[DaveW]

Leaving the computer on does not hurt it. Think about servers; they are left on for months and it doesn't hurt them. Your wallet may hurt from having a higher electric bill though...

Not entirely true...

Problem 1) Physical Problems. Moving parts wear out, dust gets into the components, the system can physically last less time if it's on constantly.

Problem 2) Bad programming. All programs that run on servers are carefully designed, especially in terms of multi-threading, to ensure that you don't get something called a memory leak, where a piece of data is stuck in memory without any way to access it. In servers, you have programs called Garbage Collectors. These are sometimes built into languages, eg. Java has a powerful one built in, but not all languages-eg. C and Ada-have them. Servers have them built into the OS. The ones you get in Windows systems are considerably less advanced and more prone to failure, with the likelihood of failure increasing the longer the computer is left with programs running.

The main reason that servers are left running is because your average server has a massive startup time, of anything between an hour to a couple of days. The ones in the DCS at Glasgow take an average of 6 hours to start once they break, and as they keeping knocking the power out, we've become all too familiar with the cycle.

-Dave

[xRyokenx]

Yeah, I was just curious about that... so what would be a reasonable run time for a PC? Mine usual runs maybe 10-14 hours on weekends and about 3-5 on schooldays. A friend of mine used to leave his on forever, and no wonder it ran like crap.

The one other thing my PC does besides entertain me and allow me to communicate more (I hate phones), is heat my room. I closed the air vent because if it's not opened or closed all the way it makes a lot of noise, making it impossible for me to sleep, and I like it cooler anyway, and no, I don't leave it on overnight, it makes enough noise while humming away as it is...

[DaveW]

Yeah, I was just curious about that... so what would be a reasonable run time for a PC? Mine usual runs maybe 10-14 hours on weekends and about 3-5 on schooldays. A friend of mine used to leave his on forever, and no wonder it ran like crap.

The one other thing my PC does besides entertain me and allow me to communicate more (I hate phones), is heat my room. I closed the air vent because if it's not opened or closed all the way it makes a lot of noise, making it impossible for me to sleep, and I like it cooler anyway, and no, I don't leave it on overnight, it makes enough noise while humming away as it is...

Well, it's hard to judge. It depends on the sort of software you're running. The reason some programs, like Apache, are so popular is because they're good at running a long time. I'll try and give my boxes at the very least 1 hour downtime every 2 days, although i rarely if ever need to actually enforce my rule.

-Dave

[xRyokenx]

It's usually idling, unless I really feel like surfing the web and/or BSing with friends.

[DaveW]

In that case, you might as well turn it off, for the sakes of the environment if nothing else.

You'd all probably be surprised if you met me by just how much of an eco-warrior i actually am.

-Dave

[xRyokenx]

I'll probably end up setting it to hibernate after an hour, especially since "standby" is just annoying and doesn't really do anything whatsoever.

[simon275]

Yes dual screens are excellent. They cut time down working on assignments you have the internet open in one screen and word in the other.

So the 6800XT will be fine for dual screens in windows. I am running a 6800gt and can play WoW across two screens. One screen will run off the DVI and one of the D-Sub

I run two 19" lcd monitors

The best way to set up dual monitors is to use the NVIDIA drives which will detect both screens and let you span the image across them horizontally.

The clever part is the drivers trick windows into thinking that you just have a single very large screen plugged in so it ups the rez to 2560 x1024 and has the taskbar across the whole bottom of the screen.

Don't use the options in the display section of the display properties menu use the drivers

I hope this helps.

Also If you have any problems or want me to walk you through it just PM me.



With water cooling system I poked around online a bit. A good air cooled system will do the same or better than that system. You can put an aftermarket fan and heatsink on the graphics card. Like one of these it will do a better job than that watercooling unit. And plus this is $20.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835186132

With water cooling you have to go all the way and spend like $300 to see cooling that beats aircooling.

[Ronyx]

dual monitors are good for assignments yes, but if you're looking for gaming. i can tell you first hand that it's not worth it. better off getting a 4:3 aspect 20" LCD then dual monitors.

[Cevinzol]

dual monitors are good for assignments yes, but if you're looking for gaming. i can tell you first hand that it's not worth it. better off getting a 4:3 aspect 20" LCD then dual monitors.
I guess I ahve to disagree here. having a game on a full screen and still be able to open a webpage, check e-mail, etc. is a really nice. Also some games really rock on multiple monitors (ala Crimson Sky's: Project NightHawk (http://www.thebestcasescenario.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28&page=1&pp=10), flight sims for one are fantastic with 3 montiors. I wish I had room for 2 monitors.

[xRyokenx]

My onboard video card, once I upgraded the drivers, decided that I had two monitors, even though I had one... the software looks pretty user-friendly. If I had room and the cash I'd get a couple brand new monitors... I might just get a new monitor this next Christmas, or as a graduation gift. Are widescreens any good? I was thinking about getting one of those...

About the cooling, for the video card I decided to get the aftermarket heatsink when I order that awesome 512mb card for $145, and for my pc, if it doesn't condense all to hell, I might use my current heatsink considering that it has copper tubing in it, and looks as though I can use it for that, if not... I'll just use the water block that it comes with. If you need the link for my current heatsink, I think it's on one of the previous pages.

[xRyokenx]

Any advice on how to overclock? I'd also like to know what the safe temp range is for when a CPU is on full load, and what temps it runs best at, as in the greatest efficiency...

[xRyokenx]

Can somebody give me advice on overclocking? I'd rather not melt my CPU and fry my motherboard by making stupid mistakes due to lack of knowledge. Also, what's the limit on CPU temps? I'd like it to run at the best temp it can whilst overclocked... I'm thinking of just getting a more efficient fan for my heatsink and maybe filling the copper tubes with some coolant of some sort...

[ajmilton]

my advice on overclocking is http://www.google.com
the limit on cpu temps is variable. depends on the cpu.

[Ronyx]

i was informed (thxs dude =P) that it's actually 60 Celcius before you can worry. But i wouldn't want to hit 60C before worrying. I'd say if it gets to around 56 then try some better cooling methods. Watercooling is the way to go for overclocking. Fans won't keep you cool enough.

[xRyokenx]

Okay, thanks... that's about 140F... okay, thanks.

Will installing a better fan and filling the heatsink's copper tubes with coolant cool it any better? I'd rather not spend the money if I don't have to.

Here's the heatsink I have:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835185123

It does have copper tubes, it's hard to tell on the pic. Those little bumpouts are the nuts on the end of the tube.

[Ronyx]

how many fans are you running now and wat size? can i get a pic of your case maybe?

[xRyokenx]

I have a 120mm in the back, two 80s in the side, an 80 up front, and a 92 on the heatsink, but I was only thinking about replacing the 92... this thing runs at about 110F or about 29C when it's on full load. Here's a link to the case:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16811119047

The two 80s are hooked up to the vents in the side of the case instead of that stupid funnel thing.

[Ronyx]

ok, i'm sure you won't have any probs OCing this seeing as it only runs at 29C under load. Remember, don't knock it up a huge amount with your very first go. Do it in small increments so you can keep track of where some problems might occur or glitches form.

[xRyokenx]

Okay, thanks for the help. Kevin (progbuddy) said to do the small increments thing too... how fast do you think my CPU can get to? It's supposed to be 1.8ghz, but at the moment it's only 1.4ghz... I'm assuming that it has underclocked itself due to the minimal amount of RAM I have.

[Ronyx]

don't take my word for it but i'm guessing 2ghz without breaking a sweat and at 2.5ghz i'd say enough.
I'm not much of an overclocker but i think you should be able to pump it up to those speeds without crashing it or overheating. tell us how you went after you do it :)

[xRyokenx]

Okay, I'll let you guys know... I realized as I was getting ready for bed that I did a conversion wrong, it runs at 43C on full load (or near full at the least)... sorry guys, my fault... I'll probably overclock after I get my new video card sometime soon... gotta wait until my next paycheck, and then see if I can have someone order it for me...

[Ronyx]

remember, don't overclock your video card... it's a waste of time if you do. only gives you a couple of frames at the most but you void your warranty and risk losing your video card to a puff of smoke.
CPU overclocking is all you'll need =]

[xRyokenx]

Okay, thanks... as if I'll need to overclock the awesome video card I'm getting anyway, take a look:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814141026

Oblivion is gonna look sweet on this PC.

[Durrthock]

About the Sapphire X1600 (it has to be PCI, not PCIe),


If you cant use pci express judging buy the specs of your system you could mabie just get to like 4 fps witha pci 6200 oc
So Looks like ob is out of the question with that system

[xRyokenx]

Well, considering the card I'm going to get, which the link to is on the the bottom of page 4, and the fact that I'm going to be overclocking my CPU to 2+ghz, and I'm going to have sufficient RAM, it should play Oblivion...

[simon275]

That should be able to crank out obilivon no trouble. The only thing that I have better in my PC is my athlon is at 2.4ghz a 3400+. So you will have no trouble.

[xRyokenx]

Cool... so you have a similar or the same video card? Cool... my pc might could match yours if my processor overclocks high enough... now if only I had dual monitors... but then again I wouldn't have room on my crappy desk.

[Ronyx]

dual monitors is good for homework and assignments. Forget about dual monitors for games, it's not what it's hyped up to be.

[xRyokenx]

Well, considering from what I've read in the reviews along with what you just told me, I had planned on buying an aftermarket cooler anyway, that and the dumb broad on the stock cooler is annoying anyway. My AGP slot is 8x, luckily... if you look on I think the 3rd page, I have a link to my current heatsink, let me know if it would be good for overclocking, oh, and I was thinking of buying a better fan for it, the one on it is sufficient for now, if the heatsink isn't that great, here's the water cooler I've been looking at, let me know if it's good or not, and some advice for installing it if my current heatsink isn't good:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835103006

About the dual monitors, it would be cool to have, even if I don't use it for games, but it's just an unnecessary luxury.

[xRyokenx]

Well, actually... I'm getting a DIMM of RAM that's desperately needed, and I'm buying the video card (hopefully soon). Send me a link to the TITAN watercase, oh, and just in case you didn't see, the CoolerMaster water cooler that I gave you the link to was originally $100 before the sale. Here's the aftermarket video card cooler that I was thinking of getting, let me know if it's good:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835186132

...and here's my current heatsink, do you think it'd be good enough, and it has copper tubing and all and I believe it could be used for water cooling, but it doesn't have the plastic over the metal plate on the bottom:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835185123

If the stuff I'm currently looking at isn't good enough, and if the TITAN is within my price range, I'll get the TITAN instead.

[Redundant]

Sorry to break it to you but Air heatsinks cannot be water cooled.

Thats right, you cannot put tubes on those "copper pipes". They are called heat pipes. There are no nuts to unscrew as they are welded shut. Inside a heatpipe there is a fluid that transfers heat from one part of the heatsink to another. In this case it is taking heat away from the CPU and transferring it to the aluminum fins of the heatsink where its then cooled by the fan.

As for the quality of that heatsink, you would be better off buying a Zalman one as they are very quiet and cool very well.
But, seeing as already have bought that one, just make sure your temps don't go too high. Also, if you can position it in any direction, having it blow toward the back exhaust would be best.

[xRyokenx]

Oh, alright... that makes sense.

About overclocking, etc... I'm gonna wait until Kevin (progbuddy) gets back from Australia to mess with the BIOS, he knows more about that stuff than I do, and I don't feel like screwing anything up.

[xRyokenx]

I was talking about the plastic over the baseplate, but nevermind, my idea won't work anyway... they should make an air/water cooling combo deal though, that would be cool, and probably work good too. Do they have any cheaper TITAN models? Here's the link to the thermal paste that I got:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16835100301

It cooled my CPU by about 10-15F, or about 5-7C

Edit: Durr, it's a case... should have checked the link... ah, well. If you find a good water cooler for a price within my budget (up to $75US), PM me the link.

[Mitternacht]

I heard Gold is very good at dissipating heat. Crazy question, but if you had some gold leaf or something between the processor and heatsink, do you guys think it would work just as good as thermal paste?

[xRyokenx]

Look up the Cp (specific heat) of gold and of a couple brands of thermal paste, that would tell you, whichever has the higher specific heat should work better... but I may be wrong, I'll have to ask my physics teacher when we go back to school after Winter Break (aka Christmas Vacation).

Edit: Or you could just look up the heat conductivity on Wikipedia... so, specific heat may have nothing to do with it...

Edit: Due to the conductivity of gold, it's probably not a good idea.

[Mitternacht]

I'm just curious at the thought of it, because gold is a solid and thermal paste is like a plasma.

[xRyokenx]

Would AS5 work better than my current paste? If so, would it be smart to reinstall my current hs with AS5, or just buy a water cooler and apply the AS5?

When I get the video card and replacement hs for it, after applying AS5 to the CPU, would there be enough left for the vid card too?

Edit (yeah, I know there are a lot of these): I just did my "research" on Newegg, and they say there's plenty for a whole load of CPUs, etc. I really need to start looking crap up before asking stupid questions.

[AJ@PR]

I'm just curious at the thought of it, because gold is a solid and thermal paste is like a plasma.
Friendly corrections (or just, nit-picks on my part):

1- "plasma", I consider the 4th state of matter... highly energetic, definitely not something we want inside our PCs. Did you mean "paste"?

2- Gold is solid,... yes... but, if I were going to produce it commercially, I would make gold shavings and mix it in with a 'paste'.

3- I wouldn't use gold leaf paper because, I don't think it's that 'pure'... in addition, I don't think a flat piece of paper (even the super-duper-extra thin gold leaf) will have a perfect contact area both on top and on the bottom. IMHO, it's going to create hot-spots.

Finally, we're really not that too concerned with the 'heat capacity' of gold or other materials... we're more concerned with the ability of those materials to transfer heat.

Water has absurd ""amounts"" of heat capacity... but it isn't a really good conductor of heat.

Just my 0.02...
Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. :) :) :)

[xRyokenx]

Yeah, I realized that specific heat doesn't really matter after about five minutes of reading... but yeah, thanks for the corrections, I'd rather someone tell me what I'm doing wrong than everyone stand on the sideline and think "what an idiot." But yeah... I thought this thread was about me upgrading my PC, not gold leaf thermal paste nuclear fusion reactor haggum blargle... ah, well, if you think this thread is getting random and side-tracked, you should see my mind...

EDIT: After exiting Ragnarok Online (my name is "Ryoken," with no quotes or comma), I looked to see what the temp was, and it was 120F, which is about 49C. Yeah, I've said a lot of different temps, but this one should be correct...

[xRyokenx]

Merry Christmas all.

I got my other 512mb of RAM this morning, I just plugged it in, and discovered in the BIOS that I can set the amount of RAM my video card uses, so instead of 32mb, it's 128mb. You can tell the difference.

[xRyokenx]

Can someone give me advice on overclocking? I have absolutely no idea about any of it, and would prefer not to destroy my PC. Thanks.

[Mitternacht]

Can someone give me advice on overclocking? I have absolutely no idea about any of it, and would prefer not to destroy my PC. Thanks.


I wouldn't recommend overclocking, but as long as you understand when enough is enough, you should be fine. It starts in the BIOS, not any of the program crap. I don't recommend any overclocking program. It's much better to overclock through the BIOS than it is to overclock when windows is running. In the BIOS, there's adjustments for the bus speed, voltage, etc. Take one small step at a time until you notice instability, then back it off a little bit. There, you should have the processor just about as far as it can go, while still being stable.

Wish I could provide more, but this is as much as I know. That is, until my dual-core 64 and MSI board comes in. :D

[xRyokenx]

I was reading through another thread where someone was saying to not use any programs that OC, to only use the BIOS...

Thanks for the advice... I'll probably wait until progbuddy, who lives about 5 minutes away, can come over and help with it before I do anything.

[xRyokenx]

Hey, umm... I'm having some major computer problems... I think the motherboard or something is shot... At first, it booted up, and asked me if I wanted to start Windows in safe mode, and I hit "Start Windows normally," and it went into a seemingly neverending chain of rebooting, so I powered it down and tried again a few times, and after a couple tries, I turned it on again, and it made a terrible buzzing noise, which came in the direction of the monitor and speakers, and I turned it off, turned it on again, and it did the same thing. Now when I boot it up, it sounds normal, but doesn't display anything, I tried a different monitor, and it didn't show anything on that either. I pulled out the HDD, and it doesn't rattle or anything. It smelled like something electrical burning, and after sniffing around, it seemed to comerom the CPU... so I pulled off the heatsink, and there was some thermal paste on top of the CPU, not on the contact where it should be (I'll find out what thermal paste I have sometime later), so I wiped off the thermal paste, and put the CPU back, but left off the heatsink. Oh, and there weren't any scorch marks on anything or any cracks on the motherboard, so I think it might be a loose connection. The night before this I had a particularly bad dream, and I did some kicking... my bed is a mattress on the floor, with the desk on the end by my feet, the desk has an open side where the tower sits, so it's an awful spot, and I've since made room in a better spot for the tower. Any advice on this would be great.

-Anthony

[progbuddy]

paste might be on a sensitive connection, reducing voltage. Try blowing uit with can air.

[xRyokenx]

My computer makes an annoying beeping sound whenever I try to turn it on... so I'm assuming the motherboard and/or CPU is dead... I'll probably contact Newegg and get replacements for both and install the crap all over again. So long as I don't have to reinstall everything I'll be happy.

[slytherock]

What's the codes? shorts ones, long ones combinaison?

[slytherock]

awardbios beepcodes (http://www.bioscentral.com/beepcodes/awardbeep.htm)

[xRyokenx]

I sounds somewhat like a British police siren (I used to watch those car chase shows), like "dee doo dee doo dee doo," and it continues to do that for a couple seconds after the power is turned off.

EDIT:
This one:
Repeating High/Low CPU: Either the CPU is not seated properly or the CPU is damaged. May also be due to excess heat. Check the CPU fan or BIOS settings for proper fan speed.

There were some darker brown marks on the bottom of the heatsink, so it might have overheated. progbuddy is supposedly going to come over to my house one day and help me with this... he has a spare Socket A CPU, so let's hope it's just overheating, but it starts beeping about half a second after it's turned on, so that may not be the case... If worst comes to worst, I'll just have to throw about $120 to $150 to a new mobo and CPU, or, if it works, buy progbuddy's CPU from him.

[slytherock]

Probably only a dead CPU. If the board was touched, it wont open at all.

[xRyokenx]

Ahh, okay, thanks... I'll have to search for a new one online... too bad Newegg doesn't sell Socket A CPUs anymore, I'll take a look, and throw another fifty bucks or so at this thing.

+Rep for you slytherock

Thanks for the help.

[slytherock]

The pleasure was mine :)

Good luck on your quest

[xRyokenx]

It appears as though they phased out Socket A CPUs with the coming of Vista... so, I'd rather not try eBay, CPUs are too easily broken, etc. for me to want to look there, and if anyone wants a Socket A mobo, just let me know, I seem to have a spare now, unless someone here knows of somewhere to buy the CPU I need.

[xRyokenx]

Just got back from progbuddy's, and I have some bad news... it seems as though the motherboard is messed up, we put one of his spare CPUs in, and it tried to burn the crap out of that one too. He took some pictures, and we're gonna try to get ahold of BIOSTAR and get a replacement or refund, hopefully a refund, I'd like something more recent anyway... it seems as though the title of this thread should go from "Computer Upgrading" to "Computer Problem Resolving."

[Ronyx]

my dad has a socket A Thunderbird CPU.... it's as slow as..... a....... turrrrrtllllee.

[progbuddy]

my dad has a socket A Thunderbird CPU.... it's as slow as..... a....... turrrrrtllllee.

lol. What sauce would you like with that BBQ CPU?

[Ronyx]

lolz, i'll have to pass on it this time,
I've Upgraded =D

[xRyokenx]

Okay, here's the deal, I just ordered some replacement stuff for my PC. I also got that video card I've been wanting for a while, and it should all be here by (hopefully) Saturday. Here are the links:

Thermal Paste:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16835100012

Motherboard:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16813138275

CPU:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16819116249

Video Card:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16814141026

Video Card replacement heatsink:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16835186001

I'd have to say:

1. This experience has f***ing sucked, but been a good learning experience.
2. Having a job pays off.
3. I just got bashed in the face on the value of money... $340... wow, I'll still not be over this for a few weeks at the very least.
4. The feeling of getting my PC up and running again soon feels NICE.

[Ronyx]

glad you've made it through man, trust me, that first time you load it all up is totally worth it =]

[xRyokenx]

I wouldn't doubt it... I'm excited, but I'm hoping nothing dies like it did before, progbuddy says the PSU is fine, but I'm not really sure, I'll have to ask him again about what the whole problem was, and hopefully I don't have to RMA the PSU... that would be annoying. After this I'll save up for a while until my bank account is around $1000 before I buy anything again, such as that water cooler. Or maybe that could be a gift for earning my Eagle rank in Boy Scouts... that would be nice. I'm also going to have to get Oblivion and another couple games that I'm interested in, such as Supreme Commander and C&C 3. I've been trying to keep myself occupied playing Morrowind on our Xbox, which has been fun, except for the screwed up a lot (in character design) and am on my seventh character... there's virtually nowhere to train in that game except for the quests, those require a LOT of running around, and dying when you fight some crazy dude after killing his eight buddies that were also bad news...

[progbuddy]

Nice. Just make sure to run a burn-in (NOT literally, lol) test on the CPU to get the arctic silver set.

[Ronyx]

24hour burn in is recommended. just leave it on for a night or so and you should be fine. doesn't even have to have anything hooked up to it.

[xRyokenx]

Okay. I'll do that when the mobo comes in on Monday. I had to RMA the vid card heatsink I bought because there were a few capacitors in the way... so I'm going to order a different style one where you build it around the card, according to the reviews, they work better anyway.

EDIT: What do you mean by burn-in test?

[.Maleficus.]

Just running the CPU at a full load. It generates more heat, helping the Arctic Silver to spread itself and get in a comfortable position. When the AC is comfortable and happy, it's more willing to transfer heat :).

I'd say, get Prime95 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime95), run a Torture Test overnight, and it should be fine.

Keep in mind; Arctic Silver says that it takes 250 hours of use before the maximum cooling can be reached, so don't be discouraged by less-than-perfect temps in the first uses.

[Ronyx]

i'm getting temps of 36c and 40c when not on load from my comp, and that's during the first few weeks of running lolz. guess i'll be seeing even lower temps after the 250 hours =]

burn in is a period during which your computer get adjusted and stuff, soft of like when you buy shoes. at first you think they're too tight but after a couple of days they wear out and they're fine, close to the same thing with comps. plus it helps determine if the comp has a problem under stress and to see if the components are performing like they should.

[xRyokenx]

Okay, here's the deal:

1. I got it together
2. I got it working, but Microsoft is gay, so they want me to buy another copy of XP.
3. It decided that it doesn't want the mouse or keyboard to work, so it seems busted ten minutes after I got it together.
4. I've decided: **** BUILDING COMPUTERS, I can't get the ****ing thing to work, I don't have the patience at the moment, and I'm on the verge of going crazy from stupid ****ing morons that I deal with all the time, such as my retarded family that enjoys pissing me off and nobody else giving a **** about how I feel. Next time I'll just pay HP to build me one of their overpriced PCs. Stupid $800 piece of scrap metal.

[xRyokenx]

After having time to reflect on the issue... I'd first like to say sorry for all of the above... I freaked out, you guys probably know how it is to spend lots of time (mainly waiting), money, sanity, and patience on something, and to have it fail... after thinking on the issue, I've decided that it might could be the PSU being underpowered for the job. If anyone could post a link to that site where it estimates the amount of power you need for your components, that would be great, at the moment I really don't feel like searching through the forum for that... again, sorry for all of the above.

[Crimson Sky]

Yikes. had a little freak out there? Hmmm?..

[Ronyx]

Teenage years, i'm turning 16 soon so my hormones are driving me nuts. Girls begin to catch your eye more then algebra -.- and playing games lets you take it out on people online. Everyone has to go through a "pissed off' faze. I remember at times i could be angry and at others I'd just feel like ****.

Getting back on topic, you can try searching the forums. I asked the exact same question a while back somewhere here and i got a couple of good links that can help calculate your power usage.

[simon275]

i got a couple of good links that can help calculate your power usage.

This is the one I use and would have to be my favorite and is the most updated one on the web

http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculator.jsp

And here is another one I found

http://www.journeysystems.com/power_supply_calculator.php

[xRyokenx]

Thanks guys, I'm pulling in some more experienced minds on this... we should hopefully have it running good soon, and it better be some simple problem... if anything, this whole ordeal has taught me a little bit of patience, but used a LOT...

EDIT: Just used both of those links... both of them say that I need about 320 watts, so my 430 watt PSU should be sufficient, unless I have problems somewhere else or if the PSU is defective...

[xRyokenx]

OMFG, I got it to work! W00Ts! The auto halt setting in the BIOS was messing it up, so instead of "all except keyboard," it's now "all errors." Hooray for me and my genius self! Thanks to all that helped to reinspire me and improve my mood! You were right Jeremy, the sense of satisfaction is freakin' sweet. I should have known that with all other problems I've had, that it would've been stupid and simple... oh my god I feel smart and stupid... wow...

EDIT: Now I think I'ma upgrade to Vista, I have a voucher somewhere that will get it for me half off, especially since Macrohard is being a bitch about my validation code... but we'll see. Any advice on the matter would be great.

[xRyokenx]

Yeah, well... due to the problem with XP (I have to reactivate due to the hardware change and it won't let me use my code, so I'ma call them later or something and hopefully get this resolved and not have to buy more stuff, I'm already almost broke as it is), I might not have a PC for a while... or at least until I get more RAM and Vista. My mobo has two 184 pin slots and two 280 pin slots for RAM, so I might could buy another two gigs of RAM for the 280 pin slots, and get myself three gigs and be all set, but then... there's the matter of getting Vista, which I'ma find my voucher thingy for 50% off and get Home Premium... and with the discount, it'll be $80 for Vista and the RAM (when I checked) would be, at the cheapest, $150... this computer keeps saying "more, more, more!" of my money spent on it... greedy bastard. Ah well, it'll be nice to have, now alls I needs is a copy of Oblivion.

EDIT: Oh yeah, the geniuses that designed my mobo decided to put the IDE cable slots on the bottom of the thing, so the cable doesn't reach both my optical drives... if they don't sell extended cables (or if they're a rip off), I'ma just move the drives down a bit. One more thing, my new video card heatsink comes in today, so if Windows doesn't get resolved, take a guess at what my project for the night is going to be.

[Redundant]

I'm pretty sure you can only use ONE type of RAM at a time: either DDR or DDR2.

[xRyokenx]

If worst comes to worst, I'll just sell the RAM to someone or hold onto it for future use. Do they sell 1.5gb DIMMs of RAM? 3gb sounds good to me, although it might could be overkill, but you never know... especially if you're possibly getting a new OS soon.

EDIT: Well, on the bright side of all this:
1: I don't need to overclock (at least for a while).
2: I can upgrade to PCIe with the mobo I have if I ever need to.
3: This mobo is easy to take whatever parts are around and slap them in there (it has 4 PCI, an AGP, a PCIe x16, 2-184pin RAM slots, 2-240pin RAM slots, a Socket LGA-775 socket (yeah, redundant, I know), and onboard LAN, 4 USB 2.0 ports, and sound card.)

[xRyokenx]

Oh man, I just played Halo on this beast and it was GREAT! I'm enjoying this thing... but now to stop procrastinating, I'ma call Microsoft and get this activation problem resolved... let's hope they're reasonable (although they're probably not).

EDIT: Wow... that was... ahem, That Was Easy. Heh, Staples... well, at least I can understand Indian accents and they are reasonable about it, here's how it went:

1. Go through automated crap.
2. OMFG, it didn't work, I totally didn't expect that (durr).
3. Connect with Microsoft "Representative."
4. Indian woman asks why I need to reactivate.
5. I tell her.
6. She tells me long ass 54 digit number that would look nice on a paycheck, but not anywhere else.
7. I have the nice day she tells me to have.
8. Post results on TBCS.

[xRyokenx]

Guess what? BF2142, my trackball, new Ethernet cable, and IDE cable all came in a few minutes ago. w00t!