My engineering idea... plausible?

[tybrenis]

Hey guys,

I can't tell you what I am working on, yet, at least. However, I can ask for your advice on the general subject.

Here is my idea. I'll use a simple model to help everyone out with my concept.

You are building a tennis ball cannon, like a potato launcher. The thing shoots damned fast, let's say it is capable of like 50 tennis balls a second for a firing rate. Unfortunately, gravity is capped at 13 balls a second.

So, here comes my idea. Say you have a big tennis ball - holding container. You fill it with tennis balls, and then pressurize it using a compressor. When you release the valve where the balls slide into the cannon's firing chamber, the high pressure would rush to low pressure, "sucking" a ball into the chamber at a much faster rate that gravity.

Is it plausible to have this? Would it even work that way? Also, would it be possible for the valve to close, the chamber to pressurize, the valve to open, the ball to be released, etc. at a high rate of speed? Say, like 40 balls a second? Or, would it take way to long to pressurize the chamber? Say the chamber was very small (10 inches by 5 inches at most)?

I know there is a lot of brain power on these forums, I appreciate any help you guys can give me. Also, slug toy, I'm counting on you to pull an equasion out of nowhere and use it to explain my ideas.

EDIT: Crap diagram:

http://www.powerpackedpc.com/images/tbcs/ghetto_vacuum.JPG

Thanks everyone!

[Mitternacht]

Air pressure wouldn't necessarily increase gravity. Instead, have a spring-pistoned cylinder that holds 50 tennis balls, so they will be forced down faster than they can fall.

[tybrenis]

That's the idea - I was hoping a vacuum would be faster than gravity. There are already force feed sort of things out there - they are used on paintball guns all the time. They basically have paddles that force the balls into the gun using a motor.

A piston, you say? Could you elaborate? How small could I make something like that?

[Mitternacht]

lol well actually, it wouldn't be small at all.

________
| spring |
| piston |
| ball |
| . |
| . |
| . |
| . |
| . |
| . |
|_______|
| Valve |

This cylinder would be 50+ tennis balls high. Completely impractical, but effective.

haha, this is like one of those Mythbusters things. If it doesn't happen, make it happen.

[tybrenis]

I plan on designing SOMETHING to effectly feed balls into a chamber at a rate that high.

[Mitternacht]

well 50 fps is just a little too high to shoot for. I don't see why you need 50 fps. What's the purpose? Just to do it?

[tybrenis]

Hehe... for now thats a secret.

Only the angels know... (hint hint, google...)

[Omega]

Reading this thread will compel me to make a compressed air potato gun (as opposed to an actual explosion-powered one).


I think I know what I'm doing with Christmas money.

[tybrenis]

Nice.

[AJ@PR]

What about having the balls arranged in a circular pattern?
Then push them at the "end" of the line, and out they come at the beginning's opening.
It's an modification to Mitternacht's idea.

[Zephik]

Hehe... for now thats a secret.

Only the angels know... (hint hint, google...)

lol

It's a pretty sweet idea if it works. Heck, it is making me want to try and design something similar to this! If you figure it out, I'll have to come to you for tips man. *cough*

;)

-SnowFire

[Slug Toy]

overall... i think the spring powered idea is the most feasible. seems to me thats how proper gun magazines work anyways.

if you wanted to get pointlessly complex, you could try a gas blowback piston loading mechanism that loads a new ball using some compressed air bled off from the firing.

actually you reminded me of a grade 10 "project" that me and a friend were fiddling with. he was sick and tired of some noisy kids, so he wanted to make a long range paintball cannon to shut them up. we had quite a complex apparatus designed and semi-built. it worked off a double-screw air pump that was driven by a big electric motor, and provided constant high pressure to feed a six barrel gun that fired A LOT of paintballs. that thing could probably have downed 10 people before they knew what hit them... if it had actually stayed together. it kind of blew up.


Only the angels know...

so... you want to play tennis with the angels now? i dont mean to sound like a pessimist, but jumping off a bridge may be a lot easier and cheaper too.

[.Maleficus.]

Reading this thread will compel me to make a compressed air potato gun (as opposed to an actual explosion-powered one).


I think I know what I'm doing with Christmas money.
Yeah, I've been disscussing making a potato cannon with my friend (he already made one, and I think I'm going to too).

[tybrenis]

I might as blow my plan - I am indeed talking about paintball.

By Angel I meant the paintball bun, made by WDP. I own one of their fine markers, and the board in the trigger is capped at 140 balls per second, and the gun is said to be limitless (obviously not true, but it could withstand a lot).

I am, however, limited by the hopper. The hopper is the part that feeds the balls into the gun. Right now, my hopper can only feed about 15 balls a second, but I can shoot around 30 with my fingers.

So, I want to devise a hopper that can feed 40 or more, currently they have force feed hoppers that can feed 35.

[chedabob]

How about, a really long sort of tubey thing, folded around itself a few times, with a masssssiiivve piston inside that will force them down?

[tybrenis]

Well, it has to be electric, or somehow controlled through the use of eyes or sound activation. I would put eyes in the bottom of the hopper, so when there is a ball in it, it forcing them down. Just when they are being shot. A spring loaded kinda thing sounds kinda rough, and I don't want anything reciprocating, because that would break the paint fairly easily.

...plus, it has to fit in the hopper of a paintball gun and still hold at least 120 balls. I'm thinking just beefing up a force feed hopper with a nicer motor, board, etc.

[chedabob]

You could have an air compressor that puts the paintballs under pressure, and once the ball has left the area in the barrel where it loads, a valve opens, fires another ball, closes, repeats.

[tybrenis]

That was my original idea.

However, it would be a bit hard to haul around a generator and a compressor on a speedball field...

[Cevinzol]

the board in the trigger is capped at 140 balls per second... Right now, my hopper can only feed about 15 balls a second
I don't know a lot about paintball but 15 rounds/second= 900 rounds per minute. Thats the same rate as a MAC 10 & Thompson machine gun. From what I've read, high end markers can run at 20-30+ rounds/sec. I think 140/sec is an impractical goal.

From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paintball_equipment):
The industry standard maximum velocity for safe play is 300 feet per second.300 feet per sec/140 rounds per sec= paint balls leaving the gun spaced every 2 feet apart.

At that point why don't you just carry a pressure washer and a backpack full of house paint and call it a "flame thrower"

140 rounds/second sounds awfully fast to me, Thats 8,400 rounds/minute! You can't even get 2,000 rounds/minute out of a real gun unless you use caseless ammo. Like this HK G-11 prototype (http://www.hkpro.com/g11.htm). Then again I guess paint ball IS caseless so what do I know.

Putting the paint balls under pressure (either atmospheric or physical) is going to have its limitations long before you reach your target rate of fire. Presure and tension like that will probably deform the balls and cause jams/misfires.

Would a belt fed mechanism work?

[tybrenis]

140 balls a second is what my electronic trigger is capped at. I would never want to shoot that fast, that's an entire hopper of paint in about a second. I'm just trying to think of new ideas for a hopper, because it seems the paintball industry only has two designs used : agitating hoppers, and force feed hoppers.

You're right in saying that high end markers push 20-30 bps, 35 balls a second is as fast as the fastest hopper out there than rip paint at (the halo b w/ rip drive).

A belt mechanism would work but remember that we have to keep the parts small. Here is a picture of a halo b:

http://www.onlinesports.com/images/nps-22029.jpg

Here is one on a paintball gun:

http://www.torquepb.net/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/nathan.jpg

[Omega]

[QUOTE=tybrenis;60994]So, here comes my idea. Say you have a big tennis ball - holding container. You fill it with tennis balls, and then pressurize it using a compressor. When you release the valve where the balls slide into the cannon's firing chamber, the high pressure would rush to low pressure, "sucking" a ball into the chamber at a much faster rate that gravity.QUOTE]

the tube is not sucking the balls into it, but rather the hopper is forcing them out.

Think about it this way -- sucking is created by a vacuum, or any pressure under 14.7psi (or just 1 bar.). Pushing is created by pressure -- or any pressure over 14.7psi. If you are forcing something int neutral pressure (14.7 psi) then you need a higher than neutral pressure.

That all should be obvious. Now, comparitavely, the pressurized holding chamber could be considered "neutral" and the tube could be considered a vacuum, but in all reality, you don't compare it like that, you compart it to neutral atmospheric pressure (once agian, 14.7psi).

-Omega

[tybrenis]

[QUOTE=tybrenis;60994]So, here comes my idea. Say you have a big tennis ball - holding container. You fill it with tennis balls, and then pressurize it using a compressor. When you release the valve where the balls slide into the cannon's firing chamber, the high pressure would rush to low pressure, "sucking" a ball into the chamber at a much faster rate that gravity.QUOTE]

the tube is not sucking the balls into it, but rather the hopper is forcing them out.

Think about it this way -- sucking is created by a vacuum, or any pressure under 14.7psi (or just 1 bar.). Pushing is created by pressure -- or any pressure over 14.7psi. If you are forcing something int neutral pressure (14.7 psi) then you need a higher than neutral pressure.

That all should be obvious. Now, comparitavely, the pressurized holding chamber could be considered "neutral" and the tube could be considered a vacuum, but in all reality, you don't compare it like that, you compart it to neutral atmospheric pressure (once agian, 14.7psi).

-Omega

Yes, I am aware of this, sorry for not being spot on.

...8)

[gaz_the_chav]

Reading this thread will compel me to make a compressed air potato gun (as opposed to an actual explosion-powered one).


I think I know what I'm doing with Christmas money.

Here is mine which I made using drain-piping, Hair-spray and a lighter!

http://www.hrstrailersmarine.com/gaz/Video002.3gp

This is some seriously dangerous **** though. So many times when we did it the end blew up! Good fun mind...

-gaz