Why?

[progbuddy]

It's so confusing. Why do we still pay for internet access? It should be a public thing, like it was meant to be in the first place (it isn't anymore, thanks to ISP's). Our internet bill came in (it was 70 dollars for Suddenlink Premium, and then they were charging us about $5 for "renting" something we payed for) and it was rediculous. Paying so much money for a public thing is wrong, and it has been wrong.

[Crimson Sky]

Confusing? Why do we pay for it? it's not a "public thing". People with real jobs and skills and mouths to feed have to maintain the infrastructure that delivers internet access to your home. Are you that clueless?. Geeeze. turn off the PC and go read a book. Library cards are free.

[Drew]

Don't mess about Crimson, you tell it like it is.

But there is that thing about making free wi-fi access in public places...

I'll post a link if I can find the info.

[Airbozo]

How is the internet a free service? you pay for water, electricity and phone service. The equipment has to be maintained and that costs money. So does the R&D involved in future enhancements. You want free internet access, take your laptop to the local coffee shop.

The Internet is really NOT a public service. The equipment is privately owned and maintained. Same with the transmission lines.

$70 _IS_ a bit excessive if you ask me. My Comcast 6mb connection costs me $39.95 (would be ~$48, but I told Comcast I was switching to DSL and they gave me the lower rate). I also do not pay for the equipment rental.

[Crimson Sky]

But there is that thing about making free wi-fi access in public places...

I'll post a link if I can find the info.


Nothing is free. ever. never. That "free" wi-fi will be littered with advertisments that will most likely pop up and bite your websurfing tush.

[Ticien]

Im pretty sure there are a few countries out there (Japan is one I think?) where internet access is a government service instead of a corporation deal and while you do have to pay for it it is significantly less expensive...I think that's about as close to free as you can get (unless you hijack your neighbor's wireless connection through the wall :P)

[progbuddy]

Confusing? Why do we pay for it? it's not a "public thing". People with real jobs and skills and mouths to feed have to maintain the infrastructure that delivers internet access to your home. Are you that clueless?. Geeeze. turn off the PC and go read a book. Library cards are free.

I know. I just saw that major ISP's are going to start charging even more to webhosts to keep their connection speed (if webhosts don't cough up the fee, they're gonna put them in the "slow lane") which means incidentally that people are going to do exactly like you said <jobs/>. Then thats gonna cause a further increase in prices. This reminds me of the "Hurricane" Katrina oil story.

Ticien has a point, too.

And airbozo, we only get 5 MB/sec for 70 bucks. Or we could get Time Warner, which is even more of a ripoff.

[Crimson Sky]

Hey Prog, what do you know about paying bills anyway..LoL.. you're 15 years old. I have Metallica T-shirts older than you. Just wait till you're in the workplace and Uncle Sam takes his 33% of your paycheck. ;)

[Mitternacht]

I have Metallica T-shirts older than you.

MUST GO; MUST BUY!!!

[Airbozo]

... I just saw that major ISP's are going to start charging even more to webhosts to keep their connection speed (if webhosts don't cough up the fee, they're gonna put them in the "slow lane")

This proposal has been defeated. It is called the Net neutrality bill http://www.savetheinternet.com/blog/2006/12/08/congress-closes-telco-bill-dies-on-the-vine/

And airbozo, we only get 5 MB/sec for 70 bucks. Or we could get Time Warner, which is even more of a ripoff.

$70 is a total ripoff. I could get an 8mb down w/1.5 mb up for that price...(now have only 385 up or close to that).

[xRyokenx]

I earn like 10 cents over minimum at KFC, and let's say I make $100 during one pay period, they take probably about $8 to$10, then let's say I make $150 during another pay period, they take about $15 to $20, how does earn $50 more make the tax percentage jump from 8 to 10 up to about 10 to 15? Hell, they shouldn't even tax you if you make less than around $11 per hour, it's ridiculous, and minimum wage should be about $12, not $6.15... you can't live off of minimum wage, that's one reason why we have so many people on welfare, the other reason is that a lot of people are lazy pieces of crap... a guy moved near me from Florida, where he worked one job, and got $10 per hour, which is reasonable, he moved up here, and had to work two jobs and had less than he had in FL, and since then, I think he moved back and took his old job back... what an odd world we live in... and paying for the internet is like paying for a phone, you pay for the services, not the "product," but they should offer at least DSL everywhere they offer phone services, not just ****ty Dial-up, which is what all my friends in our neighboring county have to use... freakin' 56kbps, screw that, we get like 5mbps... or we're supposed to... Sprint is good for ripping people off and being a bitch, but whatever...

[Ticien]

My apartment complex has a contract with brighthouse *barf*

They charge an arm and a leg for mediocre service and they tried to screw us over when we moved in...some nonsense about having to wire the cable up to the apartment and this and that other miscellaneous fee. My lady called me while the guy was there and told me about how we apparently were going to have to pay something like 200 bucks for the "installation"...funny thing is there was a cable outlet in the living room the whole time and I knew it was there since i toured the apartment...

-rep to the cableguy for trying to pull a fast one :down:

incidentally now we pay $100 a month for internet, cable w/ dvr, and a telephone line together because of their "mishap", plus we got a free outlet put in the bedroom.

[xRyokenx]

Heh heh, showed those jerks, eh? $100 for all that sounds like a good deal, especially with both the cable and internet, which are usually quite expensive...

[Ticien]

yeah...now if only it was good service....

[xRyokenx]

yeah...now if only it was good service....


Heh heh, yeah... I'll have to add that company to my "avoid like the plague" list, it'll be there in a nice comfy spot next to Sprint/Nextel, who're being evil to another member of this forum. There's one of my philosophies, if you screw one of my friends or someone I know, then screw you, you ain't doing that to me. ;)

[Ticien]

lol yeah I would have to support avoiding them...god knows I would be if it wasnt my only choice.

[Airbozo]

First off Minimum wage is NOT meant to support you. It is a _starter_ job. Get some skills and get a better job.

As to the rate hike when making more, the US tax code is a sliding scale. The more you make the more you pay, unless you make millions, then you spend money on tax lawyers to find all the loopholes so you don't pay any taxes (or very little). Then factor in state and local taxes, yes some city's tax you for the _privilege_ of fighting the traffic, looking for a parking place and dealing with the overall hassle of working downtown, and you are looking at more like 42% tax on your wages. I am a big proponent of a "Flat Tax". Your tax bill comes from the IRS on a post card. It has only 1 question: "How much money did you make last year?" next line: "Send us 15%". No deductions, no write offs, no special loopholes for the rich.

Cable companies will get away with whatever they can. You have to watch them and question everything. No-where does Comcast tell you about any discount rates, but if you press them on it they will concede. Just like the "discount" they give me to keep my cable over dsl. If they think they will loose you as a customer they will often offer you a discount. Press them on it and then ask again. Comcast did try to charge me for install, but I called them on it and they connected me for no fee, but made me connect all the equipment. They also tried to charge me for the modem, and I told them to come pick it up and I would buy my own, they decided not to charge me.

BTW even though my cable connection is faster than my dsl connection was, it is NOT as reliable.

[luciusad2004]

For the internet to be free you would have to get the government to pay for it and you just KNOW that for that to happen there would have to be a major tax hike. Then we would be listening to people complain about how taxes are to high. Either way... your losing money.

Besides, with all of these "internet privacy" concerns would you really want the government controlling your internet access. I don't want to have to listen to someone talk about how the government is bugging their computer.


Oh and what was it i read above were someone was saying people shouldn't be taxed if they make below a certain pay rate? That would be ridiculous. Sure the rich should get taxed more but, having the wealthy take all the burden and the poor contribute nothing? Talk about unfair.

[Ticien]

Income tax is like an involuntary savings account...sure it sucks, but then you get a fat check in the mail at the beginning of the year to spend on computer modding :D

[nil8]

ISP companies are a for-profit business. They set their own premiums based off what they have available to them.

They, like all utilities, have infrastructure that requires maintenance and remodelling.

The free wifi programs are only in a couple of places and they are experimental to see if it is a useful practice & enough businesses and residents will make it economically viable. If not, the project will either be funded by taxes or scrapped.

Paris is doing something neat. Over the next 20 years they want fiber running to every home and business in the hopes of being able to carry phone, internet and tv through a single line. Neat idea, but it's funded by the city and taxpayers are paying hefty sums over the next few years to get it in place.

If you live in BFE, don't expect the same price as someone who lives in a large urban area on a broadband pipe.

I agree with Crimson and Bozo on this. They've said everything far more eloquently than I can.

I have 5mbit/512k cable and pay around 50 bucks a month for it. It's not bad for this area considering I'm outside that same speed for DSL service here.

If your ISP dictates where you live, move to Chicago, Houston, or California. Big pipes, cheap service.

[Airbozo]

..........

The free wifi programs are only in a couple of places and they are experimental to see if it is a useful practice & enough businesses and residents will make it economically viable. If not, the project will either be funded by taxes or scrapped.



If your ISP dictates where you live, move to Chicago, Houston, or California. Big pipes, cheap service.


There are a TON of coffee shops and restaurants that offer free wifi service while you are at their shops. THe city of San Francisco is partnering with google or yahoo (don't remember which), to offer free wifi in the city limits. Not sure how they will make any $$ off of this, but like nil8 said it is still experimental. On of my friends surfs in Santa Cruz almost daily and then parks where he can get some wifi service to work during a break in the sets.

Back in '90 there a was an ISP in santa cruz that would charge you a flat fee for a dsl connection. The closer you were to the switch, the faster your connection, same price. I was getting 3mb down for $14.95/mo. It was called Scruznet. They were eventually bought out by a larger company then that company went under... go figure. Scruznet and The University of California at Santa Cruz were responsible for there being at FAT pipe coming into Santa Cruz County. The nickname of that fat pipe? "May West". Hehe

[Airbozo]

Income tax is like an involuntary savings account...sure it sucks, but then you get a fat check in the mail at the beginning of the year to spend on computer modding :D

Not sure what the hell you are talking about there Ticien. If you are getting a check back from the government, you are wasting your money. Letting the IRS "borrow" your cash for any amount of time is cheating yourself out of the interest you could be making on it if you put it in the bank in the first place. Most people I know underpay and then send a check on April 15th (making money on the money they owe). The IRS is also contemplating charging a fee for "over payment" during the tax year. They say it costs them money to send out refund checks to people who over pay. Any thing for a buck!

[Ticien]

Touche salesman.... I will have to look into this whole not having to pay as much and sending a tax check in April thing... was certainly not aware of it until now

[Airbozo]

Touche salesman.... I will have to look into this whole not having to pay as much and sending a tax check in April thing... was certainly not aware of it until now

Sorry, if my tone was harsh, Nothing sets me off more than a discussion about taxes, (which is not what this thread was about, so sorry for the Hijack).

Look on the IRS website, they used to have a calculator that would tell you how many deductions to take based on your income that would make it so that you did not pay too much or too little.

Did I ever mention I used to date an IRS auditor? Bitch! But that is another hijacked topic.

[Maz]

Im pretty sure there are a few countries out there (Japan is one I think?) where internet access is a government service instead of a corporation deal and while you do have to pay for it it is significantly less expensive...I think that's about as close to free as you can get (unless you hijack your neighbor's wireless connection through the wall :P)

Way back from page one. this is possible because, believe it or not, many people in japan do not have computers.

[progbuddy]

Hey Prog, what do you know about paying bills anyway..LoL.. you're 15 years old. I have Metallica T-shirts older than you. Just wait till you're in the workplace and Uncle Sam takes his 33% of your paycheck. ;)

I know. I've taken three business classes already. Gonna start working in about 5 months :p.

Oh, and Anthony, if they hiked up the minimum wage, there would be a slight increase in pay for the first few months, then there would be a depression. Managers will have to pay more to employees, then prices go up on items to compensate for wage increase(inflation). International trade will slow to a halt (American money would be worthless), workers get laid off, nobody has money, the bank takes your assets for loans, etc. etc. Then you're poor. lol. After that, the gov't steps in, and gives everyone tax refunds, lower the discount rate, etc. etc.

Had to get that little fact out :D.

[Nick_Black]

hehe, I love living in canada, still get taxed, but I don't think quite so much (at least not on lotto tickit's :p), plus my parent's pay for the internet... crud, I'll be moving out soon... oh well Dialup never killed anyone did it?:think:

[Airbozo]

I know. I've taken three business classes already. Gonna start working in about 5 months :p.

Oh, and Anthony, if they hiked up the minimum wage, there would be a slight increase in pay for the first few months, then there would be a depression. Managers will have to pay more to employees, then prices go up on items to compensate for wage increase(inflation). International trade will slow to a halt (American money would be worthless), workers get laid off, nobody has money, the bank takes your assets for loans, etc. etc. Then you're poor. lol. After that, the gov't steps in, and gives everyone tax refunds, lower the discount rate, etc. etc.

Had to get that little fact out :D.

Yes, progbuddy, this is how it works, but most people pushing for a minimum wage / living wage (living wage is another joke, since minimum wage is NOT meant to support anyone) fail to either understand this or ignore it completely. It is basic economics. When the minimum wage goes up (I really do believe it should have increases tied to inflation(although I could be completely ignorant to the tie)), every one else's wages go down (relatively).

+rep for basic economics understanding!

[xRyokenx]

I know. I've taken three business classes already. Gonna start working in about 5 months :p.

Oh, and Anthony, if they hiked up the minimum wage, there would be a slight increase in pay for the first few months, then there would be a depression. Managers will have to pay more to employees, then prices go up on items to compensate for wage increase(inflation). International trade will slow to a halt (American money would be worthless), workers get laid off, nobody has money, the bank takes your assets for loans, etc. etc. Then you're poor. lol. After that, the gov't steps in, and gives everyone tax refunds, lower the discount rate, etc. etc.

Had to get that little fact out :D.


I know, that's the beauty of it. Just kidding. :D

It should be like $12, as in raise it about 8% every year and voila, minimum wage just about doubles after ten years, keeping up with inflation, durr... my dad and I have talked about this a few times... people are just stupid about such things, "oh my gawsh, I hope minininininimumumunum waaayje duzn't go up b'cause Ah'll have to pay fawve cehnts mo'h on mah buhger..." F*king retards...

EDIT: Oh, and Airbozo, I don't even know why I'm complaining... the people on minimum wage are usually morons anyway... just read your post on the second page, heh heh... (thinks, duh... I so stupid eeeis!). (jk)

[OvRiDe]

For the internet to be free you would have to get the government to pay for it and you just KNOW that for that to happen there would have to be a major tax hike.

Thats the least of the problems I have with that... If they pay for it, THEY control it. No thanks, I am happy with my 50 bucks a month. :)

[luciusad2004]

Thats the least of the problems I have with that... If they pay for it, THEY control it. No thanks, I am happy with my 50 bucks a month. :)

Yeah that was another point i made in my post. People wouldn't be to happy when the government tried to take control of their computer usage.

[Drew]

Nothing is free. ever. never. That "free" wi-fi will be littered with advertisments that will most likely pop up and bite your websurfing tush.

You're probably right. *sighs*

Should have thought about it a bit more.

/leaves thread that has got waaaaaaaaaay more deep than he likes.......

[LiTHiUM0XiD3]

im gunna answer this in the simplest way possible.......
BLAME THE GARDEN GNOMES!!!!
:)

[Crimson Sky]

This thread got real political real fast...

Sorry..
-Jai


Well gee, thanks for dropping that turd on the thread without an explanation. :p ...

I think we pretty much helped explain to prog why internet access in the home is not free. Point being, you can't take for granted the services and infrastructure that go on behind the curtain of everyday life---it's not complicated or political at all, its business; from the garbage collectors to the firemen to the police and other social and public services coming directly from your tax dollars, to the people behind the scenes on the hamster wheel who make the internet accessible to all, for a fee.

Unfortunately there is a whole generation out there that think; "OooOo..it's digital...invisible....I can't see it...Hmmm..I guess its like air then, therefore the latest 2Pac album from beyond the grave must be FREE!"

click-click, torrent-download.

[DaveW]

Wow Crimson...you seem pretty riled about this.

Are you just fed up with the hippes who think everything should be free? People who think they can do no work and get everything anyway? If you are, then i'm behind you all the way. I'm fed up with people who do nothing all day and complain about he state of things, people who moan about government policies and don't vote, vegetarians who don't count chicken as a meat, hypocrites, bull****ters, the whole damn lot.

Moral of the story? Work hard, get what you deserve. It doesn't always work out that way but it should. You pay for what you use. Ach...never mind me, i'm just being a grumpy Scotsman. Deadlines are coming in and stress levels are high.

-Dave

[Crimson Sky]

Wow Crimson...you seem pretty riled about this.

Are you just fed up with the hippes who think everything should be free? People who think they can do no work and get everything anyway? If you are, then i'm behind you all the way. I'm fed up with people who do nothing all day and complain about he state of things, people who moan about government policies and don't vote, vegetarians who don't count chicken as a meat, hypocrites, bull****ters, the whole damn lot.

-Dave

Yes. Yes, and Yes. This whole "GIVE ME, NOW!" generation of uptight little tech savvy poseurs (not including my treasured panel of members at TBCS of course) who think it all should be free need to wake up and smell the double grande skim caramel macchiatto latte. But I digress....

[Drew]

/rejoins thread that's not so deeeeep any more.

I'm quite happy paying &#163;25 a month for my 8mb+ unlimited download package...

Came with about &#163;160 of free hardware too... :D now that, I do like.

Cue: Crimson, telling me my free hardware isn't actually free....... :P

[LiTHiUM0XiD3]

meh it dont hurt paying $43 canadian for 6Mbs down....... and 9 email accounts.... and 2Gb storage space..... cant complain....

[Crimson Sky]

/rejoins thread that's not so deeeeep any more.

I'm quite happy paying &#163;25 a month for my 8mb+ unlimited download package...

Came with about &#163;160 of free hardware too... :D now that, I do like.

Cue: Crimson, telling me my free hardware isn't actually free....... :P

That hardware wasn't free...In fact you're still paying for it, with very high interest. Every time you give them your &#163;25 they invest it and buy boat-loads of plastic crap from China at cost so they can give it to you and make you think its free, so you'll stick with the service. It's just the old " incentive to buy" scheme. For instance: "Buy a computer today and get a FREE printer!"

and when that little sample cartridge of ink they send with the printer runs out after 20 pages, they got you by the short and curly ones to buy ink for &#163;25 a pop for the next 5 years. That FREE printer is costing you &#163;100 a year. The printer company uses a small part of that ink sale to kick back more free printers to the computer company, ready in its crisp new box to lure in another customer.

Until it breaks down due to built in obsolescence. But thats another story.

-Your unlimited download package: &#163;25
-What the ISP makes in average profit: &#163;19
-Giving you free plastic crap so you stick with them and recommend the service to others: Priceless.

[AJ@PR]

Until it breaks down due to built in obsolescence. But thats another story.

Many people find this amazing, but there's a field of study in engineering dealing with "lifetimes" of things.
Yes, we get paid to engineer a limited usage for something.

Ever wonder why after 50,000 miles stuff suddenly starts to break down at a faster-than-normal rate in your car?

BTW: Taxes are, IMHO, a 'necessary evil'.

I love my country, and I love supporting it.

But, it is worth mentioning, that These United States of America were founded in major part because of an un-willingness to pay exhorbitant taxes to the king of Great Britan.

Boston Tea Party anyone?

[AJ@PR]

Vote Paul Capello for Prez.

-2008

Modded Electronic Voting Machines ?!!?

[Airbozo]

..................
and when that little sample cartridge of ink they send with the printer runs out after 20 pages, they got you by the short and curly ones to buy ink for &#163;25 a pop for the next 5 years. That FREE printer is costing you &#163;100 a year. The printer company uses a small part of that ink sale to kick back more free printers to the computer company, ready in its crisp new box to lure in another customer.
.....................


To quote from that 2-Pac album from the dead;
"Damn don't get me started! My momma smoked so god-damn much when she was pregnant, I'm surprised I'm not retarded!"

At Fry's Electronics, it is actually cheaper to keep buying a refurbished printer every time you need ink, by about $10! I spent ~$69 on my printer (and it came with ink) and $80 to replace the ink...

[xRyokenx]

Printer ink is ridiculous... it can't cost that much to make the ink and cartridges and then put them together... you just know that they're making a whole boatload of cash on each stupid little cartridge... and yes, I've seen it with a lot of things that they break after a certain amount of time... but why even bother with most things? It'll be outdated and most people will buy the newer version anyway...

[nil8]

Or you could do what I have done. Jump on ebay, find a reliable corporate reseller, and buy an older generation laser printer.
If you do it right you can have a mean printer for less than 200 bucks that holds 1000 pages, duplexes, and runs over your network.

They will last for years, toner is cheaper per page than ink, a broken model is easy to find, cheap, and a great source for replacement parts like the fuser, rollers, network cards, or memory.

[xRyokenx]

Heh heh, I'll have to keep that in mind... we have a laserjet that's been messed up for a while... we've had it for a long time, and I remember my dad saying that the ink cartridges were like $100-something each... but it would print a lot of pages each... there's something wrong with the way it "fuses" the ink to the paper, you can run your hand over it and it comes off... and then you have to wash your hand afterwords...

[AJ@PR]

there's something wrong with the way it "fuses" the ink to the paper, you can run your hand over it and it comes off... and then you have to wash your hand afterwords...


It isn't "baking" the ink to the paper.

Try running your printer inside the oven.




((STUPID PEOPLE WARNING::: THE ABOVE, IS A JOKE. PLEASE DO NOT TRY. BUT IF YOU DO, PLEASE RECORD AND UPLOAD TO YOUTUBE))

[xRyokenx]

Ahh, okay... I knew that was a joke, heh heh... I wonder how much it would cost to get that fixed... we still have plenty ink, and could "stick it to the man" aka Dell, and have a much better printer to use...

[Drew]

This really gets to you, don't it Crimson?

I'm just bloody glad you're on our side......

[Drew]

That hardware wasn't free...In fact you're still paying for it, with very high interest. Every time you give them your &#163;25 they invest it and buy boat-loads of plastic crap from China at cost so they can give it to you and make you think its free, so you'll stick with the service. It's just the old " incentive to buy" scheme. For instance: "Buy a computer today and get a FREE printer!"

and when that little sample cartridge of ink they send with the printer runs out after 20 pages, they got you by the short and curly ones to buy ink for &#163;25 a pop for the next 5 years. That FREE printer is costing you &#163;100 a year. The printer company uses a small part of that ink sale to kick back more free printers to the computer company, ready in its crisp new box to lure in another customer.

Until it breaks down due to built in obsolescence. But thats another story.

-Your unlimited download package: &#163;25
-What the ISP makes in average profit: &#163;19
-Giving you free plastic crap so you stick with them and recommend the service to others: Priceless.




That was waaaaay too easy.

:edit: sorry 'bout the double post, but I dont know how to 'edit' in a quote :(

[Durrthock]

We still pay for the freeways Especially the Nj turnpike

[nil8]

Heh heh, I'll have to keep that in mind... we have a laserjet that's been messed up for a while... we've had it for a long time, and I remember my dad saying that the ink cartridges were like $100-something each... but it would print a lot of pages each... there's something wrong with the way it "fuses" the ink to the paper, you can run your hand over it and it comes off... and then you have to wash your hand afterwords...



Does the page actually print correctly and then if you touch it does the toner smear? Or does the toner come out smeared before the page finishes feeding?

A toner cartridge can cost that much if you buy from the manufacturer. Your best bet is to go to your local printer repair shop and have them do a refill or buy a generic toner cartridge they sell for ~50 bucks. Almost all print shops have generic toner cartridges for major printers.

Don't get toner into clothing, it doesn't wash out.

[DaveW]

These United States of America were founded in major part because of an un-willingness to pay exhorbitant taxes to the king of Great Britan.

Trust me, you guys made the right choice. We pay ludicrous amounts of Tax over here. 17.5% VAT, average 20% income, something like 60% fuel duty...it's a load of balls. Scotland is trying to get independence from the 'UK', as is Northern Ireland...somehow, we all feel we'd be happier if we weren't stuck to England. (no offence to English people in any way, shape, or form.)

-Dave

[Ticien]

LOL the post about hippies and vegetariens made me laugh out loud....I totally agree.

on a side note: if you dont like meat, why would you buy beans shaped and flavored like bacon? theres some kind of paradox there that I cant even comprehend..oh well *goes back to eating bloody t-bone*

[Airbozo]

LOL the post about hippies and vegetariens made me laugh out loud....I totally agree.

on a side note: if you dont like meat, why would you buy beans shaped and flavored like bacon? theres some kind of paradox there that I cant even comprehend..oh well *goes back to eating bloody t-bone*

The only people I know that buy the "Tofurkey" products are people who because of intestinal problems cannot eat meat of any kind, but still want the flavor and texture (it is not real bacon flavor). I am a full fledged carnivore married to a vegetarian. Since I do most of the cooking, I must come up with 2 main dishes for most meals or skip the meat all together. Funny thing is, the SO hates tofu and other "vegetarian" products so it makes my job WAY harder.

Close story to the vegetarian crap...
When I was in culinary school, there were 2 "vegetarians" in our class and one of them ate fish. When I pointed out that she was NOT a vegetarian she went ape **** on me. This feud went on for a couple of classes before the instructor stepped in and confirmed this. If you eat ANY kind of animal flesh you are NOT a vegetarian. The other one (also female), refused to touch any meat, poultry or fish. When the instructor mentioned that one of the requirements of passing the class was to be able to dress and trim all of the above, she threatened to sue. She ended up failing the class because when it was her turn to break down poultry (a duck), she refused. She tried to sue the school, but no-one would take the case (big duh). She ended up becoming a waitress at a local vegetarian restaurant and was fired for being creepy... hehehe ( she was freaking out the patrons...)