PC vs. Mac

[nil8]

I copied this from my blog. Enjoy.

I recently read on HardOCP about a Mac user's view of Vista.
(http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTMwNSwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==)

I'm going to quote from the article and argue some points.

"Do Enthusiasts Just Like the Prospect of Roughing It?
As has been stated and demonstrated repeatedly, by maintaining vertical control of both the OS and hardware platforms it’s to be run on, Jobs essentially guarantees Mac users a seamless, integrated experience when using their machines. Strangely enough, they actually like knowing that their hardware has been tested and certified to work. They don’t want to spend hours screwing around with disjointed, myriad components that may or may not play well together. In contrast, PC enthusiasts should have no problems relating to the following questions:

Where’s the disc for my motherboard?
Do I have a PCI-E or AGP video card?
Does this machine have an on-board audio solution, or do I need to buy one?
Did it already say “Press F2 to enter setup”?
I just bought this thing! Why is my video driver 9 months old?
Why is my screen blue?

As mad as Kyle may be that Apple won’t let him shoot himself in the foot by trying to install the OS on some duct-tape and barbed-wire system, he has to respect that the segment of the consumer market Jobs targets doesn’t really want to be able to shoot themselves in the foot. They want a pre-packaged, eminently functional, and perfectly integrated system. Money is not everything. The quality of experience Jobs provides to the Apple faithful is more important than the almost-certainly engorged bottom line he’d see by licensing the software to run on other platforms. And you know what? It’s his company, his OS, and he can do whatever he wants with it."

When you control hardware and software you make a better end product for normal consumers. This is true. Console gaming proves this just as well as Mac does.

The issue comes in upgrades, modifications, gaming and overclocking.
Mac is not a gaming platform. It's a media editing platform, and a good one.
As such, the demands for hardware aren't as stringent and it isn't as necessary to upgrade/modify hardware nearly as often as on PC.

There is a learning curve that comes along with being a hardcore PC enthusiast. It does involve such tiring things as knowing what a driver is and how to install it, upgrade ram, installing a heatsink, more or less learning the basics of the machine and then applying that knowledge and technique to pushing your computer to perform better.
After the learning curve, advanced PC work becomes normal.
I'm typing this on an overclocked watercooled PC.
It took me 6 complete rebuilds to get the watercooling loop to work properly and with temps I'm happy with. Every time I was frustrated, and leaking fluid on your expensive electronics doesn't help.

There are no watercooling kits for Mac, because there is no demand to get every inch of performance out of them because of the nature of what is done on them.

It's very easy to chastise Windows for not being user friendly and making life difficult, but when you include hardcore PC enthusiasts, you're pissing into the wind.

I agree that Vista is ****. I could have told you that when they stripped out 3 big features that were supposed to make Vista revolutionary back when it was still called Longhorn.
Vista is a huge waste of time, money, and PC upgrades.
Mac OS X does work extremely well and is a better operating system. I won't deny that. Vista sucks.

What I do argue is that you can't lump consumers in with modders. Little Timmy might be frustrated now because he doesn't understand CAS latency or IRQ, but give him a few years and a few thousand hours, and he will be able to blow you away with his ability to take a mediocre system and turn it into an equivalent top of the line system with little more than a small budget and knowledge.

So to answer your contrite question, yes, we do enjoy the frustration. We might not show it at the time, but once you have a stable system running with whatever tweak or change we did, it doesn't matter. The frustration disappears and the absolute joy of being able to modify something using what you know far outweighs all of those hours and all of that cursing.

[Crimson Sky]

Yeah...but Macs suck. I don't get it.

[nil8]

Mac enthusiasts don't think so.

Mac OS has good things going for it for printed media and media editing. If you get outside of those areas, mac is on even ground with PC for a lot of work.

Web browsing, email, normal user tasks are almost the same. The only difference is security and stability. While the author of the editorial exaggerates a bit, Mac does have fewer problems than Windows simply because of a terd of a browser called IE.

And since OS X, Mac stability has gotten better and better. Windows has as well since 2k and with XP and eventually Vista will be more stable. But, for now OS X beats Vista.

There will always be the polarized users. I was just trying to debunk the idea that learning to deal with PC software and hardware is some mystical and difficult thing.

The rest of the article has some truth and some hype in it. Take it, and my retort, with a grain of salt. Decide for yourself.

Oh, and play around with Mac sometime. You might be surprised.

[Crimson Sky]

Like Hunter Kressel, Mac killed my inner child.

[luciusad2004]

I play around on mac all the time... im on one now. Apple gives out soooo much hype its not even funny. I would excuse it if they didn't try to pretend to be the good guys. Their commercials completely distort the truth, all they can do is bash the competition, and they cant really take the blame for anything.

How about when the ipod was carrying viruses that messed up PCs their response was something to the effect of "were sorry, but windows should have better virus protection so you cant completely blame us."

Or how about upgrading the mac, sure... you can put some more ram in it. IF your lucky you can swap the hard drive but if you want to upgrade anything else... you buy a new one. Sounds great... great for apple. Yet everyone says Microsoft is the money greedy, evil corporation of the century.

I also enjoy how people talk about how microsoft is some evil monopoly. Do they ever stop to think what would happen if APPLE got a good hold on the computer market. You want to talk about monopoly. If apple was in Microsoft's place, they would control; hardware, software, digital music players, and digital music distribution. On top of that they are trying to take over the mobile phone business, and making an attempt to push some product that allows you to stream digital content to your tv (*cough* media center *cough*)

I love how people think that Jobs is some sort of godly tech guru. I read an article about this actually. Apple gets commended on so many things that Microsoft doesn't. It comes down to the fact that people see Jobs as some cool revolutionary, and they see Bill as just another geek with a load of money.

Enthusiasts dont like apple because you cant customize it. You cant tweak it. In fact they say "think different" but if you truly do think different you will probably have a hard time working on a mac because a mac works best when you think the way apple wants you to think.

Apple - Hype, Trend, Distorted Facts.

Its a good machine but people need to stop thinking that it has been sent down from the heavens above. Its a computer. Just like a PC. If you open it up, they look the same. They have the same parts and alot of the parts in Macs are made by common pc component manufactures. It all comes down to preference.

[Crimson Sky]

+ rep for the both of ya.

[d_stilgar]

I had to endure a six hour car trip with Mac fans. They are also from Western Washington, and I'm from Eastern Washington. Normally this would not be a problem, but they had to go on and on about how if Eastern and Western Washington were separate states that Eastern Washington's economy would be horrible. They were morons and had no clue what they were talking about. I hate arguing with totally ignorant people that have no real information on the issues.

They pretty much all had orgasms talking about how good it feels to drive over the mountains to the West side of the state and drive down into the trees. They also had no clue about computers at all, so talking about the pros and cons of PCs and Macs did not get through to any of them.

My oppinion, I like both Eastern and Western Washington. I also think Macs have their place and are good for many things, but they are not as versatile as PCs. In the end I'm pretty indifferent, which made it the most frustrating. I get mad just thinking about that stupid car ride. I would have gladly sacrificed myself and crashed the car if I were driving. I would have gotten rid of three idiots at the sacrifice of one well rounded person (me), but it would have been worth it.

That is the end of my rant, and please, do not orgasm over anything except sex. Listening to them almost made me vomit. Okay, this is the end of the rant.

EDIT: This can be deleted if necessary. I just had to get it out.

[nil8]

Woo! rep from the big dog. That's worth what? 10? j/k

I completely agree luciasad. Great outlook.

I did leave out something because I didn't think it fit, but I'll post it here.
It's me flaming the mac commercials.

Mac commercials are lame. "Oh, changing memory and a video card are so hard. Buy a Mac." "Oh, I have a webcam integrated. Buy a Mac." "Windows doesn't come installed with iTunes. Buy a Mac."

[luciusad2004]

I think the commercials are what ticks me off the most other than the blatant distortion of facts. I mean like the one were they poke fun at the PC using c++.
I honestly cant even figure out what they were trying to insinuate here. Are they trying to say that no one has to program for mac because its made of magic? Are they trying to say that you HAVE to know c++ to use a PC. I know a little but i sure don't know enough to program any thing half useful and i can work a PC fine. I just don't understand the logic at poking fun at someone knowing how to program. Oh well.

Lately I've been growing less and less happy with Apple. I like OS X i think its just Apple i have a problem with. And those fan boys that think mac is greater than all. Its a great system but its not perfect and i agree with the above statement that PCs are much more flexible.

Oddly enough though my Gf's mac has been acting up more lately. Little things like were the program closes for you

Oh and thanks for the +rep Crimson.

Lucius

Edit: You have a lot of useful links in your sig nil8 just wanted to say thanx some of those links will come in handy.

[Ticien]

I completely agree. I cant tell you how many times ive had to sit and listen to Mac fanboys talk about how they are so great and perfect and nothing could ever possibly be bad about them. Its not so bad if you dont mind being limited to playing games that came out 6 years ago. My last roomate "made the switch" and it was all he ever talked about. Granted the only thing he could do was play with the Mac version of instant messenger and download widgets...

I could go on all day but I will end with an analogy.

Ask yourself. Would I rather build a hot rod and be admired? Or buy an SVT Focus and think I am?

[Airbozo]

I used to have the "mine is better" argument with my freind. He is a MAC-fanatic and Worships Apple.
(And all the rest of whom for which
To whensoever of partially indeterminate
Bio-chemical degradation
Seek the path to the sudsy yellow nozzle
Of their foaming nocturnal
Parametric digital whole-wheat inter-faith
Geo-thermal terpsichorean ejectamenta)
(thanks Zappa)

We stopped our pc/mac wars after one particular conversation that went basically like this;

HIM: But my mac(xxx) is so much better because it can do this; (xxx).
ME: I have no need for that feature, but my PC can (xxx).
HIM: I really have no use for (xxx), but I never worry about virus's.
ME: I use (insert favorite virus software here), so I never worry about virus' either, but my pc can be overclocked to run games better.
HIM: I never play games and the speed of my computer is fine for programming (xxx).
ME: I am not a programmer so that does not matter to me, but I can replace any part and choose from a HUGE selection of parts.
HIM: I would never even want to open my computer so I don't need that ability, but I can burn disks and create movies right out of the box.
ME: I don't mind installing software so no big deal if I have to buy Roxio, but it has more features than your burner.
Etc, etc, etc...

In the end it was not about the hardware at all, but what we did with it. His system works for him, mine works for me. That is all that mattered and once we both realized that, there was no "mine is better" argument anymore. Some people should not be allowed to open their systems or install any software on it, just like some people do not belong in the wilderness camping with the bears.

[d_stilgar]

. . . just like some people do not belong in the wilderness camping with the bears.

Yeah well, those stupid kids that I rode home with need to go camp with some bears.

My sister has a mac, and they really are very cool for some things. The only reason I do not like the company is because of the people who use it. Fanboys just drive me nuts. It's the same as when Halo fanboys try to convince me that it is the best game ever. I've played it, and it is mediocre. You will never get me to think otherwise. But they keep on talking.

[isunktheship]

Just a bunch of possible realistic Mac adds, the roommates and I might video some of these ideas:

MAC: Hi I'm a Mac
PC: and I'm a PC
MAC: You know PC, I just read this magazine that says us Macs are useful with design and graphical projects.
PC: Yeah great, 'us PC's' are being used by 90% of the world, especially the working world. Which means anything from hospitals, small businesses, large conglomerates, and the servers where data is stored.
Mac: I have a Job! ... his name is Steve...

PC: did you see my new video camera that I got, it's getting installed right now!
MAC: Oh, uh yeah, that's great, I have that built-in.
PC: oh right, the one you paid $4,000 dollars for.
MAC: er, well the computer was a little pricey but-

PC: would you like to meet my new security guy?
SECURITY: You have submitted a response to Mac cancel or allow?
PC: allow.
MAC: who's that annoying dude?
SECURITY: Mac has asked a question, cancel or allow?
PC: allow, that's my virus protection for Vista
MAC: annoying much?
*other person enters the room with a knife*
VIRUS: .. well hello PC, time for our usual meeting?
SECURITY: sorry I can't allow that, how about this guy?
*points to MAC*
VIRUS: oh, hey wanna hang out?
MAC: is that a knife?
*major stabbing*
MAC: JESUS H!
PC: hrm, idk I kinda like it.
*virus leaves*

MAC: Dude, I'm bleeding profusely, can you help or somethin'?
PC: Just reformat? I'm gonna go get my DX10 card installed
*Mac is shot in the face by a new Mac*
MAC2: Hi I'm a Mac.
PC: what happened to him?
MAC2: Idk what you're talking about.
PC: Mac, I went away to get my new video card installed, now he's dead, what did you do?
MAC2: Oh well.. he had a virus, plus you got DX10, so I had to get some upgrades too.
PC: Uh, yeah, just go get a new video card, mobo, or CPU, and slap it in right?
MAC2: I don't think you understand how us Mac's work. We do not allow inferior old parts to even inhabit the same space that new parts do, unless they are bought that way.
PC: Ah, so no upgrades?
MAC2: Oh what, you can't afford another $4000 computer?
PC: I'm gonna go play some steam games.
MAC2: Is that like Diablo? or superbreakout?
PC: *sigh*

Hope you enjoyed, not that I hate Macs. They're pretty nice for video editing, and 3d animating but nothing an overclocked PC can do... and in less time...

[d_stilgar]

The commercial where the PC is getting upgrades to handle vista is dumb because the MAC implies that it never needs upgrades. Really? Do you think I could sue for false advertising if I try to install OSX onto one of these?
http://images.channeladvisor.com/Sell/SSProfiles/60000202/thumbs/46/tn4_3384545.jpg

Or how about one of these? This one at least had games.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/84/C64c_system.jpg/350px-C64c_system.jpg

[Sakker]

You'd be surprised what you can get OSX to run on. I'm not a Mac fanboy, but I do own a mac, and I do love it, mind you I also happen to own several PCs, two of which I use daily, one of them I built. The argument mac vs pc is annoying, each system has different uses, different pros/cons, and different buyers. Some of the pros for each system are also cons, such as Mac's hardware is thoroughly tested and runs perfect with the software, well that means you can't easily upgrade certain parts (ram, hdd easy to add/replace). The debate that goes on is stupid, fanboys are annoying, and absolutely biased.

My roommate hates Macs, I have one in our dorm, he hates it with a passion. I asked him why he hated it, and he could NOT give me an explanation that made any sense, he uses them at work, and he argued about language configurations for word, I'm sitting there thinking dude, you can get word on a mac, and it has everything word 2003 has (whatever ver. was the latest before 07). (correct me if I'm wrong, I don't use word anymore, and its been a couple of years). That's what I run into whenever I hear somebody complaining about Mac, they pick out one thing and go at it with passion, completely ignoring the other problems in both systems.

The problem you run into with the standard PC vs Mac argument is opinion, and personal preference. PERSONAL PREFERENCE PEOPLE!!!!! This argument should not take place, each person is different, and wants different things out of their machine, leave it at that!

Ya you got this forum, who absolutely loves to tinker, I visit another forum that I linked in a macbook thread here, that loves macs. Over here I get mac bashings (no offense to anyone) and over there I get PC bashings, it's annoying. So you have a couple of problems with a system, stop and think for a second, have you not encountered problems with your preferred OS, but easily shrug them off, and if you encounter a problem with the other one, then what? do you shrug it off? or make it the center of your next argument against said OS.

Ok, so heres the end of my little rantings, and the beginning of some cold hard facts..

PCs-
Pro's- Customize, lots of products (software and hardware), flexible, universal, controls 90% of market (yes Mac went up from the 6% everyone thinks, its now at about 7-9%)
Con's- that 90% control creates viruses (the reason Mac is so secure is because of how little of the market they control), stability (not an issue for some but...) product support (hardware, and Vista)
Mac's-
Pro's- stability, lack of viruses, updates (10.4.9=free, SP=$$) software, seamless performance, media support
Con's- lack of customization (can only do so much), release schedule (behind in the tech front, new hardware needs to be tested and supported before it can be released into the apple market), etc

*Note- I have had my Mac crash on me, so its not 100% stable, and it was my fault all of the time, however I have not had an unexplained crash in Mac yet, whereas I have too many times in windows.
*Note#2- I use both platforms and like both platforms, however I DO NOT like either company behind both platforms.

Each platform is used for something different, and should (note the SHOULD) be able to live side by side.

Well, I could go on and on, but its 6:40 in the morning, on a sunday, and I'm a college student, I'm going to go back to bed before I piss somebody off, if I'm too late I really am sorry, its only about opinion and personal preference (ya I say that a lot :p ).
Have a good day 8)

[Guttenaffe]

I'm a systems engineer at a data center for a major university and I worked at our Help Desk (aka virus front lines) for two years beforehand.

We require students to buy PCs though a PC initiative when they enroll, some have the option to buy a Mac (around 10% or so) and we actually have a higher percentage of Macs/user with a Mac than our PCs/users with PCs come in for repairs. This does include software or hardware work. Out of 20k students with PCs it is normally around 2000 services per semester and out of 1500 Macs we normally see about 210 repairs. So around 4% more, this is not that much considering the much smaller sample.

I don't understand the stability issue Mac people complain about in PCs...
OES and BSD boxes have large up times >= Mac Xservers… (should be called iServer if you ask me ;) )

ESP Windows, I've never have stability problems with windows since I actually learned how it works (IE greater than a power user) and became picky on which software I install. I setup test platforms for software and read EULA's before installing software to see what else it installs, at home and at work.

Most windows problems are caused by 3rd party software. Improperly written drivers or programs can cause problems in any operating system. It’s easy to cause problems just malloc (or calloc) a bunch of ram in a C program then don’t free it (IE memory leak) and it’ll crash. Change some unprotected (or protected if you can) operating system memory = crash, even in Linux.

I've never had a virus, only had a Blue screen problem once due to my mouse firmware. Windows didn’t like the 2000DPI@1000Hz with an nForce4 SLI 16x chipset for some reason. See this was a 3rd party software problem…

I do use updated virus scanning software, I also use FireFox in place of IE, live settings monitors, & firewalls of the hardware and software persuasion.

Now looking at some of our servers at work; I'll agree that the Win2k3 boxes have smaller up times than some of our Linux boxes, yet they aren't that much different. Microsoft releases Windows patches every 2nd Tuesday and most of them require reboots. These reboots are the biggest inhibitor of uptime for Windows.

I'll agree if I look at Linux up times are normally longer between reboots than Windows but there are still patches which require reboots in Linux. Linux updates normally come out when they are patched and longer average time between updates. If you edit your kernel source and recompile it you sure can crash Linux just as easy as windows…

These updates are a GOOD thing though, without them there are security holes in your network. So system uptime isn't anything to be proud of, I don't get why people think this is important at all. ESP with most systems running server clusters it doesn't hinder service to bad to reboot them one at a time. And it is even easier when you’re running such as VMware inside a cluster. Though even VMware has patches and upgrades that require hardware reboots...

Macs poking fun of PCs for having viruses is useless, Linux has little viruses (prob as few or less than Mac) yet run on the same PC platform.

Also isn’t Mac’s OS X based off BSD anyhow?

[Crimson Sky]

Excellent points Gutte. It's truly amazing that windows runs at all considering the the vast amount of apps you can throw at it. People don't even consider that it's just staggering what these machines will put up with and run just fine.

For me its all about versatility. I'd like to see a Mac batch process video clips while simultaneously running a game in a window.

[Sakker]

Quick question Guttenaffe, how many of the Mac users there have used a mac before? That could be one of the reasons you get a higher percentage of repairs. I know when I first got my mac, I had no idea what would cause it to have problems, therefore I ran into a couple more than I do now. Same thing happened when I first started using windows, (way way way back when) I had no idea what could cause it to crash, so I encountered the blue screen a bunch when I started, now I rarely run into a problem.
Another quick question, about 10% of the students there get macs, now how much experience due they have compared to their PC counterparts, I bet most of the people running PC's there now the basics (like how to fix problem X, or at least how to avoid problem X). That could very well be a reason that you encounter less is because the PC user base there has more experience on their own machines.

BTW my update example was wrong, sry bout that.

P.S. If I am completely wrong, PLEASE say so (in any of my posts on this site).

[DaveW]

I prefer Windows, but that doesn't mean i have anything against macs. Macs are great. The only thing i hate about Macs is whinny little bitch fanboys. I'm not saying that Windows fanboys are much better, but for some reason, Mac fanboys always come across as really arrogant and ill-informed to me, which pisses me off. The main reason is that, despite all the Mac's actual advantages, they continually profess either stupid little things or flat out lies as the 'reason that Macs are better'. I think you know what i mean.

-Dave

[Zephik]

Take Diggnation for example. Alex was showing a cool new vista feature to Kevin and what did Kevin say? Yea, macs can do that too! Which was an absolute lie as we later found out! Ha!

lol I love those two guys, they are hilarious.

Btw, did you guys know that vista has an option where you can control the sound volume of each and like every individual application? THATS COOL! No more listening to music and having stupid talking web banners or IM notifications interrupt your song.

[xRyokenx]

The commercial where the PC is getting upgrades to handle vista is dumb because the MAC implies that it never needs upgrades. Really? Do you think I could sue for false advertising if I try to install OSX onto one of these?
http://images.channeladvisor.com/Sell/SSProfiles/60000202/thumbs/46/tn4_3384545.jpg

Or how about one of these? This one at least had games.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/84/C64c_system.jpg/350px-C64c_system.jpg


Good point, for PCs, you can upgrade any few components that aren't compatible with a new OS, but with Macs, you have to buy a whole new system, usually one that you can't customize yourself (at least from what I've seen).

[Airbozo]

....
These updates are a GOOD thing though, without them there are security holes in your network. So system uptime isn't anything to be proud of, I don't get why people think this is important at all.

At SGI it was important that certain systems NEVER (or rarely) went offline. This was due to contractual obligations to the government and other large companies. If you build the OS right in the first place, no reboot should be required most of the time. One particular system at sgi was up for over 3 years straight! At sgi I supported the OS build group and They absolutely hated M$'s releases. Always claiming that they release beta-ware and have the users who pay for the product, do the beta testing...

.....

Also isn’t Mac’s OS X based off BSD anyhow?

FreeBSD to be exact...


I prefer Windows, but that doesn't mean i have anything against macs. Macs are great. The only thing i hate about Macs is whinny little bitch fanboys. I'm not saying that Windows fanboys are much better, but for some reason, Mac fanboys always come across as really arrogant and ill-informed to me, which pisses me off. The main reason is that, despite all the Mac's actual advantages, they continually profess either stupid little things or flat out lies as the 'reason that Macs are better'. I think you know what i mean.

-Dave

It's those fanboys cutting across 3 lanes of traffic in their new (insert foreign big richard car name here), to make a right into the Apple campus that piss me off. I mean really, you know the turn is coming up, that lane is mostly empty, why you gotta speed around me, cut me off to get in that lane!?! This happens EVERY day!



Good point, for PCs, you can upgrade any few components that aren't compatible with a new OS, but with Macs, you have to buy a whole new system, usually one that you can't customize yourself (at least from what I've seen).


I had this exact argument with my MACFanatic friend...

[intergalacticman]

macs and pcs are like slavery. youll need a civil war to finally settle the issue

freakin Mac diehards (NOT a bad thing)

[luciusad2004]

http://www.bash.org/?462310

bahaha!

-
Jeremy

The whole "right click" thing is completely untrue anymore. You can connect any regular old usb mouse and the right click is actually pretty functional. Even the apple mighty mouse or whatever its called has a right button. Not to mention two side buttons and a scroll ball. Its kind of wierd though. The side buttons are pressure sensitive and it doesn't feel right to me. Ill get a link up for those who may not have seen it. Its pretty old. On the other hand... i have no clue why apple still hasn't implemented a right click on their laptops. ctrl-click gets so annoying after awhile.

Edit: mighty mouse (http://www.apple.com/mightymouse/) Its kinda funky. It has some nice tech in my opinion but im not going to say its the greatest mouse ever.

[Sakker]

On the laptops all you need is to have two fingers on the pad and then click like normal. two fingers to scroll, two fingers+click to right click, hitting Ctr all the time got annoying so I looked around and found it.

[luciusad2004]

Ah, thanks i forgot about that. I never enabled it because I thought it seemed weird at first but its not that bad.

Still. I think a good point is to be made...

Multiple mouse buttons is crazy and to complicated yet trying to memorize ridiculous and sometimes asinine hot keys is PERFECTLY acceptable lol 8)

Although in all fairness the most common hot keys are pretty easy to remember and sometimes mirror their PC counterparts.

[progbuddy]

Excellent points Gutte. It's truly amazing that windows runs at all considering the the vast amount of apps you can throw at it. People don't even consider that it's just staggering what these machines will put up with and run just fine.

For me its all about versatility. I'd like to see a Mac batch process video clips while simultaneously running a game in a window.

Mac is sorry. They come with great hardware, but they don't utilize it to the maximum extent. They don't allow for overclocking of any kind, and there isn't a BIOS. Windows was great up to ME, which was MSes screwup. Then shortly after, a nicely styled GUI called XP came out. All XP does is take up RAM to load all the pretty features. I think the only legit OS is Ubuntu. Looks nice, fast, and utilizes the system to the maximum extent.

[DaveW]

I think the only legit OS is Ubuntu.

Not easy to pick up and learn; and it's murder trying to install and run applications on linux, especially to a noob. That's why OSX and Windows are so damn popular.

-Dave

[Zephik]

I had Ubuntu for about a week or two. You _quickly_ realize why its free and why others are not. Thats why I don't take sides with micro or mac anymore. Cuz at least they aren't Linux based. ;)

[Airbozo]

I had Ubuntu for about a week or two. You _quickly_ realize why its free and why others are not. Thats why I don't take sides with micro or mac anymore. Cuz at least they aren't Linux based. ;)

Actually OSX _is_ linux based. (FreeBSD is a linux variant). Apple has just done a _really_ good job of reworking all the user interface and the overall experience for the end user.

BTW I was talking with my MACfanatic friend last night at the Hockey game and I asked him how easy it was to upgrade his system (the new one he just bought), He looked at me and answered: "Not really sure if you can upgrade it. I think the cpu is hardwired into the mobo (not sure if this is true or not), but since it works fine for me, why would I want to upgrade it?" My only answer was "More power!" He mentioned that he had not opened up any of the last 3 mac's he bought, including his laptop, he just bought a new system.

[Redundant]

I had Ubuntu for about a week or two. You _quickly_ realize why its free and why others are not. Thats why I don't take sides with micro or mac anymore. Cuz at least they aren't Linux based. ;)
I thought both Linux and OS:X were both based on UNIX, therefore OS:X and Linux are like, brothers?

[luciusad2004]

I thought both Linux and OS:X were both based on UNIX, therefore OS:X and Linux are like, brothers?

I think you hit the nail on the head. Free BSD is Unix. At least that was what i thought. Could be wrong though.

Edit: Either way im almost positive apple advertises OS X as being built on Unix. They claim that is what makes it so stable.

[mikesmodshop]

Windows and Macs both have there problems. (Linux too but i'm not too familiar with Linux) Right now I am on a mac (hate it tho) but at least I get some work I needed to get done. And windows OS are like 2-3 gigabytes large. That really disappoints me when I only have a 13 gig hd. I can get the DSL version of Linux that is only 50 megabytes. (BTW if anyone knows anything about this version of linux, please feel free to PM with the pros and cons of it.) As far as the PC/Mac commercials go I think that Mac is a load of BS.

Too many dang parentheses...

[xRyokenx]

Here you go:

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=macs_cant

WARNING: Includes swearing.

There's a legit opinion if I ever heard one. :D:D:D:D:D
Knock yourselves out. :D

EDIT: That second vid is disturbing, watch it at your own risk.

[mikesmodshop]

Thats always a smart thing to do Jeremy...