What are the real effects of leaving a computer on constantly?

[DaJe]

There seems to be a lot of debate in this. Some people leave there's on all the time, and say it's better if it's just left on. Others shut theirs down whenever they can, and would never leave it on for extended periods of time. So what's the real deal here? Are there actual negative effects of leaving everything running? Or is it better to keep electricity flowing through everything, and all moving parts spinning. Does the "surge" of power when starting up really cause a slight harm to the componenets? Or will letting the power run through the computer degrade it faster over time. I say we get to the bottom of this right now.

[Bucko]

The only I see is Windows needs a reboot now and then.
I usually leave mine on all the time and reboot about once a week.

[GT40_GearHead]

first it would the electricity bill
other things, i don't know, prob more wear on the hard drive and fans

and an over all shorten life expectancy of the hardware

[DaJe]

Just get a more efficient power supply if you worry about power sonsumption then. And maybe a UPS to ensure what goes into your machine is a steady flow.

[GT40_GearHead]

Just get a more efficient power supply if you worry about power sonsumption then. And maybe a UPS to ensure what goes into your machine is a steady flow.

lol no, i'm not concerned about it i was pointing it out to you

[DaJe]

I know that. When I said "you" I didn't you it in the sense that was referring to you yourself.

[GT40_GearHead]

its all cool, all cool...:smoker:

[Crimson Sky]

Getting a more efficient PSU will do very little for your electric bill. The average gaming PC costs from $25-35 per month depending on your rate if left on 24/7.

What you need is low power consumption components like the CPU, motherboard and harddrives to make a difference.

I have an HTPC that has been on for about 3 years now. I have replaced the CPU fan twice(stock Intel), the graphics card fan and all the case fans once due to failure.

If you use an UPS, you can pretty much double your estimated electric bill. They are power hungry vampires, charging up all day long.

[DaJe]

Fans aren't much to replace. As long as my hardware stays working, I'll continue to leave it on. Any estimate on how much power I much use based on what's in my signiture? I know the Core 2 Duo is a power efficient processor, and I'm pretty sure my motherboard is efficient as well, especially when it comes to powering the CPU.

[GT40_GearHead]

is there any way to calculate the power consumption of your setup based on the components you use....?

maybe an online calculator similar to LED calculators

[Drew]

When I did my NVQ it was taught that it's better to leave your PC running full time if you can, beacuse of the heat-cool cycle and corresponding expansion/contraction of components.

Apparently it can lead to all sorts of grief, not excluding expansion cards working loose.

Just my tuppence.

:p

[DaJe]

I did once see an online calculator to tell you how many watts your computer is actually using. No idea where I saw it though.

[progbuddy]

I did once see an online calculator to tell you how many watts your computer is actually using. No idea where I saw it though.

I think Crimson or Dave knows the answer to that question (I think there was a previous thread that contained the site link).

[DaJe]

I found two calculators.


This one is limited. Doesn't have the Core 2 Duo and only goes up to the Geforce 6000 series.

http://www.journeysystems.com/?powercalc



This one recommended a power supply of at least 398W for me (even though the 8800GTX has two PCI-E power connectors and suggests having at least 450w).

http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculator.jsp

[Ironcat]

When I did my NVQ it was taught that it's better to leave your PC running full time if you can, beacuse of the heat-cool cycle and corresponding expansion/contraction of components.

Apparently it can lead to all sorts of grief, not excluding expansion cards working loose.

* Your TV contains a lot of the same components, same soldering, same electrical doodads, etc, that your computer has... Does your TV break because you turn it on or off? Maybe you should leave it running 24 hours a day so it lasts longer...
* On the other hand, thermal stress can be a real problem, that's why light bulbs usually blow when you turn on a light as opposed to just sitting there popping in the middle of your favorite book.

As I have said before, I have several friends in my Geek Posse who work for IBM and this is one of the arguments we have all the time. We have scoured the web, microsoft, computer reports, spoken to various manufacturers, and we have come to one conclusion...

It doesn't matter.

Shutting your monitor off when not using it will definitely save some energy costs but really we only found 2 real problems with leaving your computer on 24/7.
1. Your computer is constantly inhaling air, skin, dust, dog hair, detrius, etc... the longer you leave it on, the longer it is sucking stuff in. The more crap on your components, the mmore likely they are to overheat. Clean it well, and constantly and that alleviates this problem.
2. If you are running a fan only system and one or more of your fans breaks down (they are the single most likely part to fail) than your cooling is cut by whatever percentage that fan was giving you and if it dies in the middle of the night when you're sleeping or leaving the house to go to Granny's for Thanksgiving dinner, THAT could be a real problem. Going out to lunch, leave it running. Going out of town for the weekend? Shut it down. Something in between those two? It's up to you...

[DaJe]

Whenever I'm not using my computer, I do shut off my monitor and speakers. I also try to keep it as clean as I can. I even clean off each fan blade.

[agnat]

Our electric company averages the cost of leaving a computer running 24/7 at $.21 a day. I have an energy star monitor that turns off after 20 minutes. The thing I can't stand is the friggin wait on Windows XP to come up! I have internet that is always on, when I move my mouse, I want to be able to get on the internet right then! So for that convenience, I will pay $.21 a day.


My $.02,
Agnat

[Crimson Sky]

Our electric company averages the cost of leaving a computer running 24/7 at $.21 a day. I have an energy star monitor that turns off after 20 minutes. The thing I can't stand is the friggin wait on Windows XP to come up! I have internet that is always on, when I move my mouse, I want to be able to get on the internet right then! So for that convenience, I will pay $.21 a day.


My $.02,
Agnat

Trust me, it is no where NEAR $.21 a day. I use THIS device (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882715001)to measure Kw usage. I'm using between 190-210Kw an hour (not including 17" monitor, speakers)on a:

P4 3.2Ghz
ATI Radeon 9800XT
MSI Neo Platinum
2 HDDs
1 DVD Burner
500Watt Antec

Unless you get very, very good rates from your power company, you can forget that estimate. Computers are basically really smart space heaters.

[DaJe]

Wait, you said the average cost of leaving a gaming PC on 24/7 is $25-$35 a month. And he said they told him an average PC is 21 cents a day, which would be about $6 a month. But then you say $6 a month is bad. I'm slightly confused.

[rendermandan]

here is what you need. http://www.xoxide.com/p3-kill-a-watt.html
I have seen them cheaper though at other places.

oops sorry Crimson, Didn't see your post.

[Crimson Sky]

Wait, you said the average cost of leaving a gaming PC on 24/7 is $25-$35 a month. And he said they told him an average PC is 21 cents a day, which would be about $6 a month. But then you say $6 a month is bad. I'm slightly confused.


did you wake up and smoke a blunt this morning? when did I say $6 a month was bad? I said it might be a gross underestimate from the utility company.

If you are concerned about hardware failure, go to the manufacturer's websites and find the MTBF (mean time between failure)data and calculate your components. Even a very good fan and other components on a corporate server will only last from 3-5 years running 24/7. Manufacturers also inflate their MTBF numbers. caveat emptor and all that ballyhoo.

[Drew]

Just 'cos it was taught on my NVQ doesn't mean it's right.....

I turn mine off when I aint using it, but that's only because of the electricity.

Like yer man said, I don't think it matters.

If you want it on, leave it on. if you want it off, turn it off.

[gaz_the_chav]

did you wake up and smoke a blunt this morning?

ROLF

I know I did - NOT!

-gaz

[DaJe]

It seems I read that backwards then.

[nil8]

I leave mine on constantly and haven't had any more or less problems with hardware failure than anyone else I know.

The last machine I had running for basically 5 years with little downtime.
I see no reason to turn a computer off if it's working properly and serves a purpose.

I keep good routine maintenance and that seems to matter far more. Ironcat hit the nail right on the head with this one.

Fans are definitely the quickest component to fail. Keep a few extras around and this makes something that can cause damage into something that takes 10 minutes to fix.

The real question is hard drive life. Most other components are going to last for years beyond their usefulness if taken care of properly. Hard drives rarely do.
There's a podcast discussing the results of Google's hard drive life report. I've found it on iTunes. Search for "Security Now!" and download episode 81. It's a free podcast and a technology focusing on system administration. Good stuff.

[Airbozo]

After working in data centers and high end video labs, here is my take;

ANYTHING with a lightbulb (any flavor) or device thats sole purpose is to heat something up (crt's) will fail prematurely if left on 24/7. CRT's have a life expectancy and the counter ticks while the power is applied. ALL manufacturer's of crt based projectors recommend turning them off (or put them in standby which does power the heaters) when not in use. I used to fix TV's for my Dad's tv shop and when the "new" instant on tv's hit the market, the life expectancy dropped considerably. This was due to the fact that the heater in the crt was on all the time.

Computers; At sgi, we did a non-scientific test on this for our own group. We had 2 identical systems, one was left on 24/7 and the other was completely shut down every day at 5pm and back on at 8am Both systems had cron jobs that did some disk indexing and network data transfers several times a day. The system we left on ran continuously for 2.5 years. No reboots, no downtime at all. nothing. Not one component failed (not even a fan). The one we power cycled went through a hard drive and a video card in that same time. Now there is no way for me to prove that the video card failure was caused by the power cycling, but it was determined that the HD that failed was more than likely due to the constant power cycling of the system. When we finally shut down the 24/7 system, it would not boot up again. Dead HD. Or more precisely, the HD had a bad case of stiction. Took several raps on the side of the drive with a rubber mallet to get it to spin up again, but got stuck every time the system was shut down. Based on the power consumption and failed parts, we determined that the system that was on 24/7 cost more in the 2.5 years than the one we power cycled, even with the failed parts factored in. (this does not include the cost of cooling or the power conditioners or battery backup)

I personally turn off my systems at night and when they are not in use and have never had any issues. I turn them off for 2 reasons; The main reason is noise. It is dead quiet at my house (and dark. REALLY dark) at night and even the sound of a PS fan can be annoying at 2am. The second reason is power consumption. There is no reason for my systems to be running when I am not banging on the keyboard or slamming the joystick around so I consider it wasteful to have them on. That is the tree hugger in me.

BTW; Stiction in drives in NOT as common now as it used to be. Quantum put out some drives in the '90's that developed stiction in the first hundred hours of operation. No one really noticed it that much since the drives were for servers that were not shut down that much. With the new manufacturing techniques it really is not that common anymore.

[Crimson Sky]

That's a very good example of server worthy components Airbozo, thanks for that. Consider also that the TBCS server has been on for 3 years now. I'm a little concerned :p

nah not really.

[intergalacticman]

Fans aren't much to replace. As long as my hardware stays working, I'll continue to leave it on. Any estimate on how much power I much use based on what's in my signiture? I know the Core 2 Duo is a power efficient processor, and I'm pretty sure my motherboard is efficient as well, especially when it comes to powering the CPU.

yes but its a pain sometimes due to procrastination. every time you boot up your computer will heat up and you'll note that you have to stop by microcenter for a new one. then you'll forget and not replace it till 3 months later. also why does it matter, components aren't everlasting and will become obsolete within 3-4 years so it doesn't matter much :think:

[GT40_GearHead]

daje, +rep man for the links, i used the second link, and i got 309 W... that is reasonable, right ?

As for the full on "tactic", I use the HIBERNATE function !
the thing is great, and its instant windows, music, Firefox, and whatever was running when i stopped it
And its like stand by, when the mobo and stuff still has juice in it, i can unplug the computer get it of the desk, wipe the dust, put it back on, hell i can even dismantle the whole god damn computer, clean it, put it back together, push the button and have all my FF tabs and aps running :D

[GT40_GearHead]

xRyokenx, i usually read the whole posts in thread before posting in it for the first time,try to do that to, to get a better understanding of how this thing works you should read Airbozos post ;)

[XcOM]

In all honesty, i have seen pros and cons for both methods.

24/7 running:
Pro: Always running, instant uptime, cleaner system

Cons: If up for long time can cause faulure if turned off, Electric bill, Cost comparisan makes it more expencive depending on your elec rates, constant cleaning needed of parts.


Off when not in use:
Pro: Save on electric, no noise at night, no heat to parts when not needed, less wear on moving parts

Cons: Heat applied and removed to parts can cause contraction/expansion can cause parts failure, Got to wait for post/boot,

Make your own minds up, It 6 of one and half dozen of another.

P.S that calc said my machine only needs 380watt PSU, my 550 gets hot with what im drawing.

[Canadian Eh?]

Turning off your comp after you are done using it and your TV and DVD players etc. will save you thousands of pounds of CO2 every year. By leaving these electronics on all the time, you will contribute to Global Warming!

[XcOM]

Turning off your comp after you are done using it and your TV and DVD players etc. will save you thousands of pounds of CO2 every year. By leaving these electronics on all the time, you will contribute to Global Warming!

Don't get me started on global warming, Nasa proved it a few years ago that its all bull. The earth goes through a natural cycle every 200k years or so, and every 200 yrs the earth goes through a mini cycle.

The earth in about 5-7 yrs off a mini cycle, OK, water level rising? = What happens if you take all the ships out the water?

Ice caps melting making the water rise? = The ice caps are 2/3 under water and are not attached anyway, therefor melting won't make the water level rise that much anyway.

Temp rising?= What happens when a volcano goes off, the earths temp drops, rem St Helans. theres two volcanos on the planet that we THINK are overdue an eruption.

Anyway, this is OF, Sorry.

I personally turn my off overnight, only coz i can't stand the noise.

[progbuddy]

Turning off your comp after you are done using it and your TV and DVD players etc. will save you thousands of pounds of CO2 every year. By leaving these electronics on all the time, you will contribute to Global Warming!

Nuclear power is actually cleaner than burning coal. When they're done with it, and it has decayed, then it is mixed into a cement block, neutralizing the radioactivity of the element used. There's a whole mountain of radioactive waste cement bocks (literally), and it is deemed harmless (trees and grass are growing on it; no funky eyeballs on them ;)). Also, the half life of Uranium 238 is about 4.6 billion years.

Anyways, I turn off my PC when not in use (I don't want something bursting into flames while I'm gone :p)

[xRyokenx]

I usually turn mine off when not using it, usually before bed, because the blue LED fans in the side of the case keep me awake, and there's the heat issue, my room gets almost no AC during the summer, and tends to stay warm, but not cold (like during winter) for some odd reason.

[Nagoshi]

You forgot the risk of having electricity troubles while your computer is powered on. It can lead to component failure (hard drives are more sensible to that), and personally it's useless to leave the computer 24/7 if it doesn't do anything. There's always the hibernate function, but you'd better shutting it down every few days since it refills the memory to the original windows state.

[intergalacticman]

Don't get me started on global warming, Nasa proved it a few years ago that its all bull. The earth goes through a natural cycle every 200k years or so, and every 200 yrs the earth goes through a mini cycle.

The earth in about 5-7 yrs off a mini cycle, OK, water level rising? = What happens if you take all the ships out the water?

Ice caps melting making the water rise? = The ice caps are 2/3 under water and are not attached anyway, therefor melting won't make the water level rise that much anyway.

Temp rising?= What happens when a volcano goes off, the earths temp drops, rem St Helans. theres two volcanos on the planet that we THINK are overdue an eruption.

Anyway, this is OF, Sorry.

I personally turn my off overnight, only coz i can't stand the noise.

wow thank you! someone gets it!

[DaJe]

I don't use filters on my fans because the air going through the filter makes an annoying noise.

[CanaBalistic]

XcOM & intergalacticman:
You both should pull your heads out of your asses. There are about 11 million webpages that say humans are the cause of global warming.
As for your ill advised NASA comment,
An international team of scientists recently published a report stating that human activities are causing changes to Earth’s climate.

Please think before you speak.
P.S. I'll try to be nicer if you try to be smarter.
------------------------------------------

I think crimsons power usage is a little off, either that or he is counting multiple PC's or his refrigerator. Asuming you have a 500watt PSU , the power usage would be 360KWh, which equates to $244.80 per month at $0.68 per KWh (my electric rate). This only counts the PSU and would be much higer if a monitor was included in the calculations. After about 10 months, you'd have more than enough to buy a new computer.

So, lets do the same calculations asuming you turn your computer off while your asleep and at work. I'll use the same 500watt PSU. Consumption would be 120KWh which costs $81.60 per month at $0.68 per KWh.

I just dont believe my own answer. It seems like to much to me.
500 watts x 24 days = 12,000 watts per day
12,000 watts x 30 days = 360,000 watts per month
360,000 watts / 1,000 = 360KWh
360KWh x 0.68 cents = $244.80 per month

Seems right to me... Damn that sure is expencive.. Damn.

[xRyokenx]

I say this with a neutral stance, not to go all OT and make this thread about global warming, but consider this:

If you scare people enough, or make them believe something strongly, they'll stand beside it until something big makes them change their beliefs, or until they die. Look at the Muslims, well, some of them... the group I'm talking about hates America, and will hate America for a very, very long time. There are the same kind of people that believe in global warming, although they don't kill people over it. Which is easier to spread? A commonly believed lie, with evidence that is manipulated to show what they want shown (some omitted, etc... you get the point), or a truth, which is ignored due to disbelief. People usually have their minds set on things, and will absolutely not listen to the other side, we're a stubborn race/species. Hopefully this gives you (and everyone else) something to think about, and maybe help you to make better decisions. Hopefully. If I'm wrong somewhere, correct me, but don't be forceful, I'll just ignore you in that case.

Hope I didn't PO anyone here. Just hope I cause people to open their minds to different ways of thinking... hopefully the higher level kind. :D

No offense to anyone is intended by the above statement.

[Ironcat]

Hey, maybe Cana is right... Global warming caused by humans is destroying the planet. Science says so... but then science also said

The Earth is flat...
it takes seven years to digest gum...
and Pluto is a planet...
and tomatoes are poisonous...
the Great Wall is the only manmade object visible from space...
and adults don't grow new brain cells...
lightning never strikes the same place twice...
hair and fingernails grow after death...


Here's a neat little article...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1363818.ece

[xRyokenx]

Good point Ironcat. I personally don't believe we're causing it, but maybe accelerating it a bit. I'd just say that for the sake of the environment and common paranoia that we should take it easy on the fossil fuels, but that won't happen with this crapitalism thing we have going on. It's all about the money, whether or not it destroys us all.

[xmastree]

I
24/7 running:
Pro: Always running, instant uptime, cleaner system

Cons: If up for long time can cause faulure if turned off, Electric bill, Cost comparisan makes it more expencive depending on your elec rates, constant cleaning needed of parts.
You seem to be contradicting yourself there... Or is it the constant cleaning which makes it cleaner.. :?

On 24/7 will suck in more dirt, which is why computer rooms are kept very clean compared to the desks in the office next door.

[XcOM]

You seem to be contradicting yourself there... Or is it the constant cleaning which makes it cleaner.. :?

On 24/7 will suck in more dirt, which is why computer rooms are kept very clean compared to the desks in the office next door.


I am sorry, i didn't make that point very clear, i know what i mean,
When i say cleaner system, i mean the O/S is cleaner, i have noticed that windows runs better if its left on for a long time, rather than shutting down and starting up again.

Personally i run server 2003 enterprise that i have modifyed myself to make it a little bit better,

Server 2003 is the best OS ever built in my eyes (Barr 98 which won't read my HDD's) my 2k3 dosn't ask for shutdown readons, some more services are turned off, DX and all extra crap is turned back on, sound is back on, and i managed to force a XP driver to install on a supposed "Unsupported OS"

AS i said before there is pros and cons for both.

-------------------------
Side: Global warming, we are a contributing factor, but so small that we have done next to no damage. I do however think we need to stop using fosil fules, Nuke power is safe enough to use now.

[Nagoshi]

Water power is the best. :)

And 2k3 must be the best server OS made... I mean, for 24/7 systems. I personally think that, for someone who doesn'T do any server activities (or use standard softwares on standard hardware), XP is the best for now.

I had 2k3 before I reformated for XP on my Pentium3... I loved it, except for all the server settings. I couldn't use more than one user (the advantage for me who uses XP on a family system) since we must input the username and password (boring), and my paernts wouldnt stand that. Besides, there weren't that much of a difference in performance between a tweaked 2k3, tweaked XP and normal XP, so I opted for normal XP and play with the settings to my own liking.

[Ichbin]

I think...that mans involvement in ****....will just make it worse..


After an oil spill near alaska, of course you get the green guys scrubbin the whole damn place up. Of course they missed a spot. The spot however that they missed, cleaned up nicely. Nature took care of itself. The people who scrubbed the **** outta it also scrubbed all the little microorganisms away. The place is now considered "Barren".

Im saying yea we do effect the earth in some ways, but we seriously do not give mother nature ANY credit. WE have to fix everything ourselves otherwise it just wont get fixed.

Watch Penn and Tellers : Bull**** on global warming. its pretty good.

[xRyokenx]

I had to watch some of that awful Al (was) Gore(d in the brain when he was younger) movie... what a load of crap, all he did was take all the seminars he did, and put them in movie form. How idiotic.

[LiTHiUM0XiD3]

cana........ u needa rework ur math...... ur PSU does NOT draw a constant wattage the same as what its rated for.... it can... which is why it points it out... but it all depends on ur parts...... read... learn...... and rework that lil math bit heh

[XcOM]

cana........ u needa rework ur math...... ur PSU does NOT draw a constant wattage the same as what its rated for.... it can... which is why it points it out... but it all depends on ur parts...... read... learn...... and rework that lil math bit heh



that is correct, your PSU will only draw what it needs, you could stick a 1KW PSU in a machine that draws 200w, and it will only dwar 200w, it won't create 1kw unless it needs it.

[CanaBalistic]

I was trying to average it out. Lots of people have high current multi GPU's and extra fans and so on. I figured that a 500 watt draw was around average.

A 300watt PSU at max all the time uses 216KWh per month and costs $146 per month to run.

More than quadruple crimsons estimate for a gaming rig which would have (on average) a 500watt PSU.
----------------------------------
Sorry for continualy going off topic.
If you think we have had little to no effects on the climate, think back to when the O-Zone had a hole in it bigger than texas. It was a major catastrophy that would have killed us all by now if we hadnt taken action on CFC's. We havent taken any action on CO2. In fact, we have only compounded the problem further. Making things far worse than good ol mother nature can handle.

[DaJe]

Looks like I came up with a good thread topic, eh. Where does power supply efficiency fall in with the power it uses here? Isn't it about how much energy is lost when the electricity is converted? Dammit, I can't get this thought out of my head right. Do you guys get what I'm tyring to ask?

[CanaBalistic]

Well i said it didnt seem right to me. My electric bill is roughly $175 bi-monthly and when im home i have the comp + my home theator system running constantly.

The only time i noticed a drastic change in my bill was when i was running a 500watt powered sub woofer that was on constantly. It was less than $100 diferential on my bill. Man am i confused...

[XcOM]

it also matters how meny amps you draw, you can use 1000v @ 1a, and 200v @ 30a, the 200v will cost you more to draw constantly.

when working out costs you need to factor in soo meny variables.

[Nagoshi]

it also matters how meny amps you draw, you can use 1000v @ 1a, and 200v @ 30a, the 200v will cost you more to draw constantly.

when working out costs you need to factor in soo meny variables.

ITs not about the amps, it's about the wattage.

1000v x 1a = 1000 watts

200v x 30a = 6000 watts

following the Watt = Amps x Volts formula.

You could run a 1000v material using 2amps, and a 200v using 10amps, both will cost the same thing to run.

[CanaBalistic]

Well i just got my electric bill today. It seems that i made a grevious error in my calculations.

I was using a higer than normal electric rate. Its $0.068 per KWh and not $0.68 as i had thought. My sincerest apologies.