Virginia Tech

[Rankenphile]

As I'm sure you all know by now, there was a very tragic shooting at Virginia Tech earlier today. Current news reports are claiming 33 dead, including the gunman, and well over a dozen injured. The media is claiming that this is the largest mass murder in the history of the United States.

I just wanted to take a moment to express my sincere feeling of sadness, shock and dismay. Having lost a friend in a similar shooting, I understand some of the feelings of confusion and agony that the families, friends and fellow students must be going through, but to pretend to know everything they are feeling right now would only be condescending and disrespectful.

My thoughts go out to all who lost loved ones in this tragedy.

[xRyokenx]

Aww man, that sucks. Maybe this was the news my mom wasn't going to tell us earlier... I've lost a family member to natural causes, and that was tough, I can't even begin to imagine how everyone who's lost a loved one/friend is feeling now... bogus... :(

[Luke122]

Absolutely agree with you.. it is a huge tragedy.

My only hope here is that they dont do the same thing they did with the last school shooting, and the one before that, and the one before that: sensationalize the killer(s).

In this time of mourning and in the weeks following the tragedy, I'm afraid that we'll see less and less of the victims, and more and more about the killer.

People like this dont just snap over night and go on shooting sprees.. they take time planning, and boiling, building up their courage and their hate. The only solution to things like this is to take the time to talk to the people in your life, care about them, support them, and help them out. And if you need support, ask for it.

The best thing I ever learned was that no matter how bad your life is, making someone elses worse is not the answer.

I hope this doesnt offend anyone.

[xRyokenx]

One thing I may add/like to point out:

It makes you wonder what screwed up a person that much to do something so (in the end it just looks like this anyway) stupid. They must have gone through hell to actually do something like that.

I agree with you there Lukifer, making someone else's life worse is not the answer. If your's is bad enough, look for ways to improve, or try to get help. That solution may be easy to say and hard to do, but so is taking the wrong path, which usually tends to be the more appealing one. I just hope they don't get more paranoid about stuff now and make it worse for the rest of us... assholes like this are the reason I'm all screwy (somewhat depressed, not going to school, etc. etc.) right now, society gets paranoid, and they make things harder for people that just need to stop being picked on, and shown a little support by their peers.

[Crimson Sky]

I'm all broken inside over this.

[Slug Toy]

i havent heard much about this incident yet, but im about to go watch the daily show, and im SURE they'll have a bit about it on there.

its interesting really... metal detectors in school and pat downs, and we all think "why the hell do they always have to do that?"... then something like this happens and we think "why the hell dont the metal detector and such do their jobs?". i dont know where im going with that... i guess what im trying to say is that theres always a way to get things done so to speak.

im curious though. 33 dead... was it an automatic weapon? that definitely would take some planning because its not like you just go into your dad's dresser and pull out the m4 one day because someone pissed you off. well... at least most times... there ARE those people that like to stockpile guns for no apparent reason.

anyways... its a big bummer that this happened. things like this remind me that theres a certain percentage of people in the world that you can never have faith in.

[MaxOC]

yeah i feel sorry for the kid that got the sound on tape, apparently the shooter got all 30 some odd people in the engineering lab lined up and started shooting and a kid was nearby with a vid cam and you only see like a wall or something but you hear this systematic boom......,boom......,boom......until 30 someodd shots have gone off.and for each boom another life is gone. its like torture,the kid that got it on tape must've been traumatized

[a.Bird]

If anything, I hope many are at least reminded of the splendor that life really is when brothers and sisters who you could say are very similar to you have lost their lives so tragically. I mourn for the friends and families who have given their hearts to the unfortunate loved ones but also celebrate those I love who love in return. I apologize if my feelings appear desensitizing or self centered but after the deaths of several young people in my life, I've begun to realize that life often makes its own choices and sometimes the best way to get trough such tragedies is not to grieve over the lost but to celebrate the lives they once had.

[simon275]

It's all over the news here. Scary stuff.

This man has to be so brave.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nationworld/bal-students0416,0,803874.story?coll=bal-nationworld-headlines

My heart goes out.

[armadilloben]

my condolences go out to all the families and students a vt we just recentley had a suicide in our school and i know how hard it is to deal with

[GT40_GearHead]

Liviu Librescu was from Romania................

[slytherock]

I feel all turn upside down. It bring back some bad memories to me. We have something simillar (not that big..) a couple of months ago. My brother's girlfriend had to face the shooter. That's something I dont want for anyone. All my sympathy to the familly/friends of the victims...

[GT40_GearHead]

i just found from the link above, what a piece of **** !
the man did a lot of things in america an romania

[Airbozo]

It is indeed a sad day when a college student feels the need to exterminate their fellow students. So much life left to live, so much to do, so much to see...

...sad...

What happens inside of a person that pushes them to this point. Sadly we may never know.

I personally feel apprehension every time I kiss and hug my wife goodbye in the morning, and without exception we DO kiss and hug each morning. She works at a school with a history of violence and gang related shootings. We shared our feelings about this over dinner last night and ended up silent for the last few minutes. Truly sad.

At the Sharks game last night, just before the Anthem was sung, they dimmed the lights, silenced the music and had a moment of silence for the victims and their families. Those that knew the news were teary eyed. Those that did not know, were outraged and then sad. I myself am angry, sad and frustrated.

.....

[Eclecticos]

Yea, I just read that on Yahoo. A damn Shame.
33 People Dead. My God.

R.I.P

[xRyokenx]

What causes someone to do this is probably feelings of rejection, confusion, depression, etc. Believe me, I know, and I only had a minor taste of them, but I'm not stupid enough to do this, and I have a conscience that would come out of my head and beat the **** out of me if I even started to think about doing something so asinine.

If someone really wanted to shoot up somewhere, they wouldn't be stopped by metal detectors, they'd just walk in and chaos would ensue.

I say don't crank security, crack down on bullies and the human race needs to be more welcoming to other people and new ideas and such, that's why there's terrorism, they won't accept/respect someone else's ideals and beliefs, so they decide they're just gonna kill 'em. The same with debating some people, it's their beliefs or they're just gonna scream them at you until you accept what they're saying as right. Or by yelling at kids to get them to open up and obey, like my brother, you keep jabbing the tortoise's shell with a spear, it's gonna withdraw further, not open up.

[Mitternacht]

Though it may sound odd, Columbine got to me more than this shooting.

[xRyokenx]

Though it may sound odd, Columbine got to me more than this shooting.


Prolly because it was one of the first ones... I remember that 9/11 didn't get to me, they had the news turned on all the TVs at school that day, but nobody explained what happened... it just never really occurred to me what had happened, and now it's just annoying due to the airplane security and such, they're going a little overkill, like toothpaste tube size regulations and crap like that, but it is somewhat necessary, planes are huge projectiles, and I would not want one of those heading in my direction.

[DaJe]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liviu_Librescu


Liviu Librescu (August 18, 1930 – April 16, 2007) was a Romanian born American Professor of Engineering Science and Mechanics at Virginia Tech and a Holocaust survivor. His major research fields were aeroelasticity and unsteady aerodynamics.


Librescu was among the thirty-three people killed in the Virginia Tech massacre on April 16, 2007. He was killed during a class in the Norris Hall Engineering Building by a student (Cho Seung-hui, 23). He was 76 years old. Librescu held the door of his classroom shut while Cho was attempting to enter it. He was shot through the door but was able to prevent the gunman from entering the classroom until his students had escaped through the windows. A number of Librescu's students have called him a hero because of his actions, with one student, Asael Arad, saying that all the professor's students "lived because of him". Librescu's son, Joe, said he had received e-mails from several students who said he had saved their lives, and regarded him a hero.

[Airbozo]

Liviu Librescu IS a true hero in _every_ sense of the word. AND he valued his students lives and well being over his own. A true Educator.

.................................................. .

You will be remembered sir!

[progbuddy]

Approximately 42 percent of surveyed persons say that it's the children's parents bringing them up that made them do it. I say thats a load of bullcrap. Almost all parents do raise their children properly. I say it's the stress of an average teenager and the ways of dealing with it. If you don't manage stress, your life becomes hell. I myslelf, have found a hobby to keep me virtually stress-free--modding :).

[armadilloben]

Though it may sound odd, Columbine got to me more than this shooting.

i feel the same mit about this one i wasnt alive during columbine but from seeing things about columbine i think i was hit harder from it than this

9/11 hit me pretty bad i woke up at 6:00 that morning (i still remember this and i was only in 2nd grade) and had this feeling in my get that something bad was aboutto happen and we had a normal day then they wouldnt let us go home from lunch (i live about 30 miles west of nyc) and i new something was up and then we got home and my dad showed me a video of it actually the plane hitting the south tower and i just was really frustrated for that entire week

same sorta thing happened this year when the kid at my school killed himself by jumping oif the school roof their were some assholes that like loved the news coveraged and loved being on tv those kids are just really jerks bc 99% of them had no relations with zach at all but they talked like they new him it was such bs. i felt so crappy that day and i think everyone did it happned on a thursday and bob the janitor (who is the nicest guy in the world found the poor kid bob the janitor is like the nicest guy in the world loves kids says hi to all of us in the morning and its just aswesome i felt terrible about having him find zachs corpse in the middle of the friggen courtyardhalf an hour before school started some of my friends were already at school by then but noone saw it i guess they closed school on friday but i doubt anyone really wanted to be their on monday i was glad about all the support they offered us their were grief councelers all throughout the week it was really helpfull but i still remember both as if it was yesterday ....FUBAR

[Eclecticos]

If you ask me that guy was "sexually frustrated" . . ugly as all hell.
And a SSOB to say the least.

[DaveW]

I myslelf, have found a hobby to keep me virtually stress-free--modding

You sure you'e doing it right? :p

-Dave

[Omega]

While I can't really put a value on human life (aside from those who I actually know and interact with), I can still understand that this is a tragic event for all those involved.

'Tis a shame that anybody would do that to innocent people, though.

[simon275]

Man an Aussie came close to being cleaned up. Guys this is messed up. :eek:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/survivors-ichat-to-sydney-friend-i-pretended-to-be-dead-i-loveyou/2007/04/17/1176696841551.html

Some of the photos of wounded students been carried out of the buildings on the front page of the paper was heart breaking.

[xRyokenx]

It's a sad thing... in more than one way...

What they should do to help prevent this sort of thing is to have windows in the classrooms that are somewhat bullet proof, and have bullet proof doors and keep them locked while class was in session. This may be expensive, but money can be regained, lost lives cannot.

Oh, and Kevin, not all kids are raised properly, there are a lot of parents that don't care, I've seen way to many people with no discipline and all sorts of problems while I was still in school.

But yeah, this kinda thing sucks. Let's try not to dwell on what happened, but think of ways to keep this from happening again, logical and practical ways, so we can minimize this kind of thing... the hard part is getting the state/whoever to implement stuff that works...

[DaJe]

You sure you'e doing it right? :p

-Dave
Apparently I'm doing it right (http://www.thebestcasescenario.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7583).

[Airbozo]

...think of ways to keep this from happening again, logical and practical ways, so we can minimize this kind of thing...


...without further deteriorating the freedoms we still enjoy...



RE: kids and parents; Children tend to be mirrors of their parents emotionally. This is not to say this persons parents are mass murderer's, rather they may lack the skills necessary to deal with stress and rejection and therefore are unable to teach their children these important skills.

I hope that one thing (of many) can be learned from this incident and that is how to cope with life's curves and dips. What can be a life ending problems today can be a source of strength tomorrow.

[GT40_GearHead]

they should do what they did to aircraft cockpits!

install bullet proof doors that can be opened only from the inside, and also put metal detectors on the entrance of every class, configure them to trip only from large metal objects so not to impend the legitimate person

[DaJe]

they should do what they did to aircraft cockpits!

install bullet proof doors that can be opened only from the inside, and also put metal detectors on the entrance of every class, configure them to trip only from large metal objects so not to impend the legitimate person

So what if someone manages to get a gun inside? Only they can open the door and they're safe behind it.

[DaveW]

they should do what they did to aircraft cockpits!

install bullet proof doors that can be opened only from the inside, and also put metal detectors on the entrance of every class, configure them to trip only from large metal objects so not to impend the legitimate person

That sort of thing doesn't actually help at all. It just makes life harder for everyone, which in turn (if you ask me) actually increases the liklihood of this sort of thing happening.

If someone decides to do something like this, you think a metal detector will stop them? Bulletproof doors were installed when i was at School after columbine. They were removed after someone set of a fire alarm (false alarm, thankfully) and the fire brigade couldn't get into the building. The doors being bulletproof and such, they wouldn't even have been able to break them down.

Things like that are a false economy. They might make you feel safer, but the truth is, they just exasperate the problem.

Feel free to discuss and disagree with me, but try to keep it civil. ;)

-Dave

[nil8]

Actually, I agree with you Dave. Bigger locks won't fix this problem.
Plus, you can't ask the already budget-strapped education system to foot the bill for these extra security measures.

Some basic mental health training would have gone a long way for the people around this guy. I think college's should make the RA's take some course about people who are distressed & their signs and symptoms. No one just decides one day to murder a large volume of people & themself without red flags going up.

"I say don't crank security, crack down on bullies and the human race needs to be more welcoming to other people and new ideas and such, that's why there's terrorism, they won't accept/respect someone else's ideals and beliefs, so they decide they're just gonna kill 'em. The same with debating some people, it's their beliefs or they're just gonna scream them at you until you accept what they're saying as right. Or by yelling at kids to get them to open up and obey, like my brother, you keep jabbing the tortoise's shell with a spear, it's gonna withdraw further, not open up."

Good luck. Repression & fear are powerful tools that get used constantly. Large groups of people are generally panicky and stupid. Logic doesn't always apply, specifically while they're full of fear.

I have an experiment for you. Go around to every door in your neighborhood and inform them that you're an atheist & you want to talk to them about evolution. Be polite, listen to their ideas, and present a valid, reasoned argument. See how many actually listen to you and take your words into consideration. I bet it's less than half. How about less than a third?

[Airbozo]

While sitting and discussing this issue with the Wife last night, we reflected on the way things have changed for us through our school years. Now this will date me a bit but here goes;

When I was in elementary school we did the whole hide from the a-bomb under the desk routine. Several years later they dropped the a-bomb threat and replaced it with the tornado warning drill (still hiding under the desk...). At the same time the wife was doing the earthquake drill hiding under the desk. When I hit high school, we just did the fire drill, drill. The wife was still doing earthquake drills under the desk.

Now that she is a High school teacher, they occasionally do the earthquake drill, but it has mostly been replaced by something called "Code Red". Upon announcement of the "Code Red" drill, all classrooms are to be "locked down". The teachers and students are required to barricade themselves into their rooms using the desks (they used to hide under), and any other objects at their disposal. They are to remain there until given the secret catch phrase of the day by and administrator or police official. One problem. The door opens outward. ADA access laws...


And Dave, I totally agree with your statement. On a larger scale, that is how I feel about the "Patriot Act" passed here in the states, right after the world trade center plane collisions.

[xRyokenx]

Hnh, you're prolly right about that nil8... if you haven't noticed, most of my ideas are thought through, but apparently not enough... but at least I'm trying, right? lol

We had a drill one day at school involving a "security breach," as they referred to it as. It happened during my end of the day Calculus class, with about 20-30 (supposedly) really smart kids in there. They did their little announcement thing, and after about 5-10 minutes, I heard someone coming down the hall. My class had been talking the whole time (less than what I would expect from AP (Advanced Placement) students), and even when I warned them, they still kept on talking. Luckily, it was just the principal running down the hallway telling everybody it was just a drill, and seeing what they were doing about it...

But yeah, fear does override many logical processes of the mind, and I had ignored that... it appears though, that fear of the thing is greater than the thing itself. At the very least, they should have everybody do what some of the teachers at my school were doing, keeping their classroom doors locked and have someone get up to see who it was/let them in, or whatever.

Media is a big thing too, they seem to exaggerate everything negative and not pay much attention to positive things that have happened, but I haven't watch the news in a while, so I'm not quite sure if it's still like that or not.

But yeah, take note that I'm only 17 and am trying to figure out how the world works still, so if my opinions are either annoying or not that accurate, feel free to correct me, like you have, lol. :D

[Airbozo]

....
Media is a big thing too, they seem to exaggerate everything negative and not pay much attention to positive things that have happened, but I haven't watch the news in a while, so I'm not quite sure if it's still like that or not.

Yes it is still like that. Sensationalism sells.

But yeah, take note that I'm only 17 and am trying to figure out how the world works still, so if my opinions are either annoying or not that accurate, feel free to correct me, like you have, lol. :D


Hehe I am 45 and am still trying to figure out how the world works too...

...and as my grandma used to say: "Opinions are like butt holes. Everyone has one and they all stink."

[DaveW]

...and as my grandma used to say: "Opinions are like butt holes. Everyone has one and they all stink."

Man, your granny rocks!

-Dave

[xRyokenx]

Heh heh, that's a good quote... actually, it's kinda futile to come up with reasonable solutions and such with the people these days, they're too busy being caught up in their own business and don't care to look outside their box to accept anything but what their limited minds tell them.

I don't know... I think I'm done trying to think up solutions for stuff, at least at the moment... I'll go back to my little world and play Morrowind some more and wait for Oblivion to arrive in the mail.

*disappears for a few months and when he returns to the "real" world he discovers that they even held a funeral for him* jkjk :D

[Redundant]

I have an experiment for you. Go around to every door in your neighborhood and inform them that you're an atheist & you want to talk to them about evolution. Be polite, listen to their ideas, and present a valid, reasoned argument. See how many actually listen to you and take your words into consideration. I bet it's less than half. How about less than a third?
I've actually done this before in school...it doesn't ever turn out well. The morons twist it to say aliens made people and that crap. Stupid people are very hard to talk to...

At school today we had a bomb threat. And pretty much half the other schools in Florida had some kind of lockdown or threat. This has to be because every other rebellious kid that saw the Virginia thing called the schools and made threats.

How's this for dumb administrators. WTF? (http://www.engadget.com/2007/04/17/schools-failure-to-change-clocks-lands-student-12-day-stint-in/)

[DaJe]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18169776

[AJ@PR]

I hadn't posted here...
Mostly, because I'm... speechless.

Lots of stuff to say.
Sadness, mostly.
But, really... my heart goes out to the victim's families.
May they somehow find peace and strength.


Dear God, give us strength to accept with serenity the things that cannot be changed.
Give us courage to change the things that can and should be changed.
And give us wisdom to distinguish one from the other.

[Rankenphile]

Yeah, a dude pulls off the largest mass shooting in the nation's history, and the press covers it exhaustively.

Real head scratcher there.