since we have a few car fanatics here

[public_eyesore]

I'm starting to look at cars as I will be getting one in september and I figured since we had so many car fanatics here I would ask and see what you guys thought. Basically I want a car that is american, under 7500 and can haul ass. Does this car exist? The only cars I know I do not want is a 73-98 mustang I think they are ugly. I would not mind learning mechanics and upgrading after I got the car, but the 7500 is the price set by my parents. Idealy I would like a 1970 mustang hatchback, but I don't know if it is reliable enough especially a noob like me (on the asvab's I scored in the 24 percentile for car repair knowledge:( ).

[Luke122]

I"m a big fan of turbo dodges. Cheap, good on gas, go like stink.. plus most people dont even know they exist.

You can find a good turbo daytona for under 1000$... spend another $1000 on it, and have a car that will run a 12sec quarter, and still get 30+mpg

www.thedodgegarage.com for some good examples/tips/info

[public_eyesore]

is there anything similar without that 80's sports car look? That's what I really hate. But thanks for replying, I could end up getting one you never know.
Keep them coming

[public_eyesore]

I just looked up thoses daytonas, and not only does nobody know about them, but nobody has them for sale. Ther were a total of 7 on cars.com and none within 500 miles.
edit: there is one but the guy doesn't trust it to go too far and has over 200k

[AJ@PR]

Honestly, I think you need to really analyze your situation.

I think it's great that your parents are spotting you 7k to buy a car...
And it's even better if you can learn mechanics... that's what I did when I was 15.
I got a 1980 Volvo 242GT.
I still have that car.
I learned mechanics with that car.
Amazing that I didn't kill my self with my ShadeTree MechanicZ SkillZ.

Still, realize something:::
If you're buying a beat up car to make it look good, or just run good, be advised that you ARE going to spend $$$.
And after that, you're going to spend yet more $$$.

If you want to add to the mix the going fast sports car thing, $$$$$$$.
Horsepower costs $.

I don't know... you have loads of options.
This is just like, a comment.

But, by all means, please keep us updated!!!

[GT40_GearHead]

well for those money you could get an 84 vette with about 100k miles on it in good shape for a car like that

but like AJ@PR said old cars heat money, trough parts, gas, more parts, and so on
and another thing a powerful car will get you in trouble fast ! not just because of the speed limit, but if you are novice driver you will find yourself heading very fast for the pole on the side of the road

i say get a ford focus, its front wheel drive, 4cyl engine, dual over head cam, 1.6litres if remember correctly, very compact car and being front wheel it will stay on the road for longer when you screw up
drive for a few years, mod it a bit because parts are redly available and cheap , get your hands in it learn the basics and only after that look somewhere else

and remember reliability is the key word, its no use to have a car if you can't drive the darn thing

[AJ@PR]

its no use to have a car if you can't drive the darn thing

**AJ thinks about his Volvo... undrivable at the moment**

**sniff**

[Airbozo]

Good point on the _Cost Of Ownership_.

I got an older Rover 3500s for free, but it end up costing me almost $5000 to keep the thing running for 5 years. My cost of learning a lesson about free cars...

Still with your budget, you could get a nice running car. Just make sure you get a car that you can afford to insure. I have a spotless record, married, multiple car discount and other discounts and the insurance on my 2002 GT is killing me.

[.Maleficus.]

Sorry to ask this in your thread eyesore, but it seems like a good place.

Anyone ever deal with eBay Motors? Is it trustable, etc.? I'll be looking into a car in the near future, and I'm curious about where to buy, if I should do local or what.

[Mitternacht]

If you want a nice American car, look for a Camaro, 87-97. Nice import (if you stumble upon no really good American cars), 300ZX; 90-96.

[public_eyesore]

Condition wise I could really care less if the car looked like it was set on fire. I just want(notice not "need") something fast cheap and reliable. I haven't stated this yet, but the closer to 7500 the better as my parents are buying just the car and nothing else. If it costs 5000 they give 5000 and no more for upgrades. I myself might spend upwards to 5000 dollars in upgrades.

Im not really into the racing scene, but I want to stress that dragging is what I want to do with the car. I dont know if people street race with turns and stuff, I just want it to go straight fast.

Please excuse my ignorance and "newbiness". If you feel like I might be arguing I am not trying to, but I don't think a v4 will suit my wants.

[public_eyesore]

If you want a nice American car, look for a Camaro, 87-97. Nice import (if you stumble upon no really good American cars), 300ZX; 90-96.

Yea I was looking at some camaros, but the fourth gen looks like a cat. I like the ealier blocky ones though(first and second the most).

[Luke122]

Just remember that bigger engine = $$$ on gas. :D

..which brings me back to turbo 4cyls. True, daytonas are getting a bit more rare these days.. however, there are alternatives. Shadows were available with turbos, as were Lasers. Later models of the Plymouth Laser were a twin to the Eagle Talon, some with awd. Eagle Talons are cool looking, relatively cheap these days, and if you get a Tsi, it's awd and turbo. (Same engine as a Mitsubishi Evo!)

I'm on the fence about the TA's, Firebirds, and Camaros.. some *did* have 4cyls, and some smallish v6's (2.8's), but they were pretty bulky cars for such a small engine, and even the small motors were harder on gas than they should have been .

I guess it really comes down to personal preference.. Cheap, Fast, and good looking.. pick two. :D

[public_eyesore]

I think the 92 camaro is awesome!!! It looks nice, it's decently powerful, it has fuel injection, and AC. Does anyone know what the milage would be for a 92 camaro?

[Durrthock]

I bought a 92 camaro in a school project

[public_eyesore]

and? how was it. What kind of milage did it get? Was it a z28?

[GT40_GearHead]

the 92 camaro should have an LT1 engine and around 280hp as for millage around 25 28 mpg thats what the vette gets and it has the same engine


the only differance is the LT1 in the camaro has 2 bolt mains and said to be detuned

bottom line if you find a good camaro go for it :D

[public_eyesore]

how much hp does a turbo/supercharger add to the mix?

[GT40_GearHead]

it depends.... on a lot of things


the easiest way for the camaro is to supercharge it with a Procharger
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/supercharger-6a.jpg
this show a basic setup
http://dezracing.com/ossite/images/88-92TPIFbodyPRO.jpg

you could turbocharge and you probably get more power from it but it takes more money and time usually because of all the pipes for exhaust intake etc

if you have anymore questions post them :D

[public_eyesore]

here's one.... why can't you be my neighbor?:D

on a serious note, what would I do to get the most speed/hp out of this car, also does hp even equal speed?

[GT40_GearHead]

oh, thank you thank you :D

first hp does not equal speed, a 500hp will not get you to 500mph but it may et you to 200 with the right stuff

like a proper gearbox, a proper rear end, proper tires ,suspension and brakes

you wont get anywhere with 500hp if the gearbox ****s parts when you put put your fut in it, the rear end (or rear axle) could brake if its not modified according to the engines power out put, the car sill be allover the road if you dont upgrade the suspension for the higher accelerations and speeds and the most important part the brakes, the last situation you don't want to find yourself in is to not have enough room to stop ! bad thing

other questions :D

[Bucko]

There's an old saying, torque wins races, hp sells cars.

[GT40_GearHead]

totally agree with that

never did quite understand how the hp work as measurement unit...

[AJ@PR]

the 92 camaro should have an LT1 engine and around 280hp as for millage around 25 28 mpg thats what the vette gets and it has the same engine


the only differance is the LT1 in the camaro has 2 bolt mains and said to be detuned

I might be mistaken, but here's my take on it. :)

The LT1 engine came with the Z28 Camaros, and the Firebirds (high-perf name?!).
The Corvette also used it as its base engine, tuned for themselves, of course.

The LT1 engine has various differences from the regular 350.
It has aluminum heads... go-fast goodies.
Aluminum intake manifold... you know, for the kids.
A 'hotter' camshaft.

And if I'm really not mistaken, it has 4-bolt main caps.
I'm not sure about this, so I'm going to research a little bit in the net and update this space here to let you guys know.

The biggest difference between the LT1 and the 'regular' Chevy V8s was the 'reverse cooling'.

In a normal V8, the COOLED water exiting the radiator goes into the engine block at the BOTTOM, it passes the between the cylinder walls towards the BACK of the block.
Then it goes UP to the cylinder heads, and towards the FRONT of the block and out to the intake of the radiator.

PROBLEM::: The cylinder heads are getting HOT water from the cylinder walls!

So, the LT1's reverse cooling, takes COOLED water from the exit of the radiator, and it first sends it to the TOP of the block into the cylinder heads.
There it heads to the BACK of the block, DOWN, through the cylinder walls towards the FRONT, and out to the radiator.

It's better to have colder cylinder heads than a colder engine block.

:)

[GT40_GearHead]

what you say is basically correct

though i'm not an expert in camaros and F birds i'm pretty sure a 92 camaro would have an LT1 engine

the main structural difference between a camaro LT1 and a Corvette LT1 is this:

-camaro LT1 had 2 bolt mains
-Corvette LT1 had 4 bolt mains

and yeah the reverse cooling thing was a HUGE step!
the thing is that in fact an engine is more efficient at higher temps, but heads are not, get them hot and they will heat up the mixture, and hot mixture is not good

so with this design you get to have a hot block, very good for combustion but also the cold heads again very good for performance because it keeps the air and fuel cool and dense basically more air and fuel molecules to burn


ha you where right on the Z28 thing:

This engine was used in:

*
o 1992-1996 Chevrolet Corvette C4
o 1993-1997 Chevrolet Camaro Z28
o 1993-1997 Pontiac Firebird Formula and Trans Am
o 1994-1996 Buick Roadmaster
o 1994-1996 Cadillac Fleetwood
o 1994-1996 Chevrolet Caprice
o 1994-1996 Chevrolet Caprice Police Package
o 1994-1996 Chevrolet Impala SS
o 1994-1996 Chevrolet Caprice Wagon
o 1994-1996 Buick Roadmaster Wagon

[AJ@PR]

w00t!

We're such car geeks.
:) :) :)

So... when are we building the twin turbo, twin Paxton supercharger, quad intercooler, NOS injected, 572 cid, ... um... "vehicle"?

[GT40_GearHead]

lol =))

i think i'll wait until i manage to buy my vette :D

[public_eyesore]

would it be worth it to get a camaro with a 350 in it, or do this (http://www.camaroforums.com/m_7367/tm.htm) to a 305? Also what models had that exact 305 in it and how much do you think those mods would run me?

[GT40_GearHead]

my personal opinion is that there is no replacement for displacement.
those mods are a lot of money in parts AND labor !

the only way the 305 becomes attractive is if you overbore it, because it will rev higher thanks to its smaller stroke and lighter rotational mass

but overboring is complicated and very work intensive AKA big $$$

[Luke122]

my personal opinion is that there is no replacement for displacement.

...except technology.

4cyl, 2.5l Dodge engine, with a head from a 2.4l Neon engine, removed balance shafts, 16psi boost = 498ft lbs @ 2500rpm, and 339hp @ 5500rpm. (http://www.relentlessracing.com/main.htm)

Lots more fast cars on that site too. :D

4Cyl FTW!

[GT40_GearHead]

lol but i dont agree

you've got to consider some things, first one being this: with a dialed in 350cid he can run 12sec runs ALL day long, but i'm not sure how many passes this guys get out of those engines and also lets just say the mange to keep them reliable think what you get if you slap a 3 stage turbocharging system on a big displacement engine... you get a 1500 to 2000 savage animal that will clear the strip in about 7 second

BTW 0-60 in 1 sec

don't believe me ! :D just look http://flashgamesite.com/live/index.php?module=item&action=show_item_full&itemurl=aHR0cDovL2ZlZWRzLmZlZWRidXJuZXIuY29tL35yL1 NwaWtlZGh1bW9yL34zLzExOTg1MTE5OC9Xb3JsZHNfRmFzdGVz dF9TdHJlZXRfTGVnYWxfQ2FyLmh0bWw=

and i agree that comparing it with a Veyron stupid but it still is 2000 from an 8 "banger" :D

[Bopher]

I had a 98 Ford Escort ZX2. very cheap for me anyway, I bought it in Oct 01 and It got me around where ever. Had some really good pick up and go. When I moved to WY I dropped just a Short Ram Air Intake into it and really got it to start smoking tires. Only reason I had to get rid of it was some girl pulled out in front of me on a main road and I didn't have enough time to stop even at 30mph. T-Boned her and cost $4400 estimated damage to the car. So I turned it over to the insurance company and am stuck in a 6 year loan for a 06 Jeep Liberty. Love the Liberty miss the "little red car" :( as my wife used to say.

The ZX2's are real cheap to tune and cheaper on gas. Throw in some 15 PSI fuel injectors (I think thats what someone on a tuner site used) and you really push more horses out of the engine. Starts out with 130hp but just adding the Intake I got another 15hp even at the higher elevation where I am. Watch the computer making adjustments. On my 5 speed it would be a little tempermental when you pushed hard on the gas pedal for about a week or two.

[public_eyesore]

does anyone know what kinda milage a camaro with a 350 will get? I just had a talk with the parents and the car they are going to get me HAS to get 20mpg city. Kind of a big dissapointment. Especially since I only live 3 miles from school and normally commute by bike.

[public_eyesore]

are there any small trucks that get decent mpg(nvm the 20mpg parent limit) and are fast?

[GT40_GearHead]

you are safe! :D

the camaro will get even better mpg than 20 go buy it :D

[Luke122]

Hehe.. in defense of the little cars, the fellow who runs that tuning shop has a 10 sec K-car, and he made something like 100 passes so far on that engine.. if you are really concerned about reliability, dont push it past 300hp.

Plus, Brian is still getting close to 40mpg (when he's not flooring it all the time) in that dodge shadow. :D

350's sound cooler though, and are pretty much bombproof. But remember, v8's still use more gas than 4cyls.

Or just get a motorcycle.. even faster still, and even better on fuel. :D Cheaper to buy, operate, and insure.

[GT40_GearHead]

they all have their ups and downs but you are right you CAN'T beat the bike lol :D

[AJ@PR]

but you are right you CAN'T beat the bike lol :D

Two words:

Stupid Drivers

That's what most unsettles me about bikes... the other morons on the road.

[Bopher]

I second that AJ@PR. My father in law just got into an accident. And i wasn't even his fault, the other driver claims not to have seen him when she turned in front of him. Now I know bike are hard to see but he is 6ft tall and riding something like a bright white touring bike. My money is on she was on a cell phone or something. Anyway that is a good insert for wearing all of your safety gear. He was wearing his helmet, jacket and riding gloves. He did get some pretty good injuries still but it cold have been worse for him. The big injuries were a dislocated wrist and ankle. But wearing his jacket kept him from having massive road rash. And I don't think I need to say what could of happened with no helmet even at only 30mph.

[public_eyesore]

you know what? I am kinda becoming partial to the newer 5.7 liter camaros (as long as it's white with black rims, or black with black rims). Are those faster than the 5.0 92's? Also what engine should I be looking for in the newer fourth gen?

[GT40_GearHead]

the engine that came after the LT1 was the LS1, great engine very responsive to mods, better consumption and more power

so yeah they are faster even faster if you get one with a stick !

[public_eyesore]

is the "ss" worth it? What year do you recomend (98 or below)

[GT40_GearHead]

the general rule is this: the newer the better !
they usually ad a little every year

oh, and stay away from low miles cars, the last thing you want is to buy a car that has been siting for more than half it life, the tires get flat spots, the whole rubber on the car starts to dry rot, the bearings can be foocked and so on

PS: post some pics and link of the cars you are looking at

[public_eyesore]

remember, Im not gonna buy until september, but looking for what car I want so I can learn how to repair and what to drool over while at camp.

I was about to post some of the ones I was looking at, but what do you reccomend for something that will beat stock mustang gt's, soft on the insurance would be nice, and reliable. Should I be looking at the rs, ss, z28, or even the v6's?

[GT40_GearHead]

i say it has an LT1 by it :D, as for the V6's don't know, it just doesn't sound right lol

[public_eyesore]

Well I looked at insurance quotes, and I cannot afford 300 a month, so the newer models are out of the question. 200 a month is a bit more reasonable for the older models.

this (http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=223094055&dealer_id=60241219&car_year=1992&search_type=both&num_records=25&keywordsfyc=&make=CHEV&transmission=Manual&model=CAM&distance=50&make2=&address=91007&only_price=1&default_sort=priceDESC&advanced=y&certified=&max_mileage=100000&max_price=7500&sort_type=priceDESC&min_price=&only_photo=1&body_code=0&end_year=1992&keywordsrep=&color=&start_year=1982&drive=2+wheel+drive&engine=8+Cylinder&fuel=&doors=&style_flag=1&cardist=16) is I think a perfect match. It's close, on the inexpensive side, manual, newer, and it's got the 5.7 v8 as opposed to the 5.0. I just don't know if it will get the mileage I am needing(or my mom says I need) or the repair record.

[GT40_GearHead]

that looks pretty good !


as for millage, look it up in wiki or something, i found it for the vette :D

[Eclecticos]

does anyone know what kinda milage a camaro with a 350 will get? I just had a talk with the parents and the car they are going to get me HAS to get 20mpg city. Kind of a big dissapointment. Especially since I only live 3 miles from school and normally commute by bike.

Somewhere around 12mpg Average. It all depends on if your one of that types that leads the pack out of every redlight :D
. .You could get upwards of 16mpg if your driving Miss Daisy.

[GT40_GearHead]

oh, are you serious ? 12mpg, that cant be right, the LT1 in the vette can get 29mpg with manual transmission !

[AJ@PR]

This discussion calls for.... links!

[Luke122]

oh, are you serious ? 12mpg, that cant be right, the LT1 in the vette can get 29mpg with manual transmission !

Corvettes are plastic and fiberglass.. not steel. :D That's alsos why they go like hell!

[GT40_GearHead]

damn it, how could forget !

you are right the vette is SO light, the damn thing does NOT have ONE metal body panel!

[AJ@PR]

you are right the vette is SO light, the damn thing does NOT have ONE metal body panel!

Sure sure sure about that?
Not even one?

[Luke122]

...I sense a little sarcasm in your tone there AJ@PR...

I'm not a Corvette guy, so I dont know a ton about them... as you can tell from my previous posts in this thread, I'm all about doing more with less. :D

[AJ@PR]

...I sense a little sarcasm in your tone there AJ@PR...

We'll have to wait for Mitt's confirmation on this... but I believe, the doors' skins are steel. For safety.

I've been known to be wrong many times before.
But then google stole my idea for gMail!

[GT40_GearHead]

lol AJ@PR, noup not even the door skins (96% sure), its not the skin that protects is the side impact bar in the door


:D

[Airbozo]

RE: Fiberglass on 'Vette's...

Many moons ago my '69 Chevelle was caught in a major hail storm and was completely totaled. Every window broken, every light cracked and every body panel had a major, creased dent. Totaled. Loved that car. So I leave the next day to head to work and I pass my neighbors house and he is on his knees in front of his 'vette crying. There were holes punched in every body panel from the hail. Every windows was broken too. Talked with him later in the week and the insurance company totaled his car due to the cost of replacing all the body parts. Every one of them had to be replaced, including the doors. There was also some damage to the engine (could have been worse I guess...). He took the insurance check and then bought back the chassis from the insurance company and fixed it himself. I never got to see it done since I moved before he finished.

[AJ@PR]

lol AJ@PR, noup not even the door skins (96% sure), its not the skin that protects is the side impact bar in the door


:D
Ahhh.. yes... the little tube.

Well, you see... that little tube will help protect you in a crash... but not the same as a steel door skin.

Let's take a door frame, and have the side impact bar in it.
Let's copy/paste it, and have one skin made out of fiberglass, and the other out of steel.

If you crash, one of those cool crashes where you go off flying into a field with grass flying into the air, holes in the ground breaking the suspension, trees getting in the damn way of your crash path, boulders and such having no business whatsoever also in the way, etc...

In one of those crashes, you're going to want the steel skin.
It'll bend... it'll get busted... but you wont have shards and shrapnel of stuff flying into the cockpit.
Case in point: Lamborghinis... both the Murciélago and the Gallardo (and the Diablo) use this setup. Carbon fiber all around... steel skin on the doors.


Umm... why are we here?
Oh yes!
I guess we can conclude with a happy medium that both the side impact bar and the steel skin would help protect you in the event that you crash your Lambo.

In the event you crash your Corvette... try and do it in a clean parking lot.

IN THE EVENT you have either one, snap lots of pics before either crash.


RE: Fiberglass on 'Vette's...

Many moons ago my '69 Chevelle was caught in a major hail storm and was completely totaled. Every window broken, every light cracked and every body panel had a major, creased dent. Totaled. Loved that car. So I leave the next day to head to work and I pass my neighbors house and he is on his knees in front of his 'vette crying. There were holes punched in every body panel from the hail. Every windows was broken too. Talked with him later in the week and the insurance company totaled his car due to the cost of replacing all the body parts. Every one of them had to be replaced, including the doors. There was also some damage to the engine (could have been worse I guess...). He took the insurance check and then bought back the chassis from the insurance company and fixed it himself. I never got to see it done since I moved before he finished.

Ouch... ouch... ouch... ouch...
I guess that's a way of seeing a grown man cry.
Sad...

[moon111]

A really cheap American made car can be a full-size Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouth. Parts can be found at wreakers. Insurance companies aren't that harsh on them. Demand isn't high so you can find one mint. Of course, gas mileage might be up there, but if you want to play you have to pay.

The biggest disadvantage can be looks and weight. So you start stripping! Loose the power seats, trim, padding, multiple ashtrays, etc. Actually some of these cars end up looking really sweat smoothed out. Some black paint on the grills and headlight bezels etc... can look really sinister. Now for the good part. Many come with a 400 cubic inch big block. It's 65 pounds lighter and has the biggest bore of any Mopar. The rod journals are the same as a 440, but the mains aren't. Bore the mains to 440 size and drop in the 440 crank. (Cast cranks will survive... a local racer was using one with no problems.) With a .030 you have a monster 451 c.i. Muscle Mopar engine. Then go find someone with a hemi and race for pinks!!!

Actually I think a young guy should go to the best cheapest scrap yard, see what they have allot of. Now that you know where cheap parts are and for what models, go find a vehicle that will fill your needs. For example, I've a t $350 mass airflow sensor for $2 at the local wreakers.

[AJ@PR]

The biggest disadvantage can be looks and weight. So you start stripping! Loose the power seats, trim, padding, multiple ashtrays, etc. Actually some of these cars end up looking really sweat smoothed out. Some black paint on the grills and headlight bezels etc... can look really sinister. Now for the good part. Many come with a 400 cubic inch big block. It's 65 pounds lighter and has the biggest bore of any Mopar. The rod journals are the same as a 440, but the mains aren't. Bore the mains to 440 size and drop in the 440 crank. (Cast cranks will survive... a local racer was using one with no problems.) With a .030 you have a monster 451 c.i. Muscle Mopar engine. Then go find someone with a hemi and race for pinks!!!
I like this man's way of thinking. :D

[GT40_GearHead]

ME TWO ! :D

the man is right, to bad the other man has a millage limit :( a Mopar would be way cool !


the only problems would from the suspension... wheel hop, bump steer and all that and you need to put big money in them to correct these problems... BUT THE ENGINE IS AWESOME !

[Greco101]

not too big of money though. you can get drag bags for 100 bucks or a set of traction bars for a couple hundred more.