Global Warming. -Spread the word!

[rendermandan]

This guy makes an incredible argument about global warming. I'm going to do my part and spread the work as he asks. So please, everyone, watch this and spread the word.

http://www.break.com/index/tough-to-argue.html

[Spawn-Inc]

well i have started to do a handful of small things like shut the lights off, try not to run access water, and shut my pc down once i'm done with it(ythough i always did).

[OvRiDe]

I must say its a pretty good argument. I think that global economic depression could lead to almost the same consequences. Wars, nuclear fallout, famine, and a equally harsh environment. But thats basically using his same parameters of the absolute worse case. All in all.. he makes a great point, if we do nothing we give up the choice. If we do something maybe we can make a more educated go at it. Nice find.

[Aero]

I'm more interested in Mar's glabal warming. Its warming at a much higher rate than earth, yet I've never heard about it on the news.

http://www.marsdaily.com/reports/Global_Warming_Hits_Mars_Too_999.html

Its warming at a rate 3X that of earth...temperature wise, on good days its hospitable, upto 23 degrees F.

[xRyokenx]

Bah, part of the natural cycle of the Earth's climate, what is there to worry about? If there's gonna be an abrupt climate change just calculate what you need, and prepare. By prepare I mean get everything you need ready, like going somewhere hospitable, training in forms of self defense, food, etc. Just my view at this moment.

[Crimson Sky]

Warming, shwarming. I've argued this before here. I'd be more worried about the serious lack of funds for the monitoring of Near Earth Objects, and how to deflect them when they become a threat. Hello? Hello?

Your great, great great grandchildren will not be around to even see the effects of global warming caused by humans. You can live in a world devastated by even a worst case scenario climate change. You can not, however live in one where even a medium sized NEO has struck the planet.

What this guy argues in the video are BIG IFs. There is NO IF in whether or not a NEO will strike. It is a when.

You probably think: "Oh, I'm sure the world's governments are taking care of that and looking for these things and figuring out ways to prevent it...they can't be that stupid, can they? Right?"

Wrong.

[AJ@PR]

I saw the video... and he says that nobody has been able to find a "hole" in it.

Well, not to be the 'outsider', but, what if:

I'm a selfish prick that doesn't give a rat's ass.
I think that's a pretty good 'hole'.

[rendermandan]

Warming, shwarming. I've argued this before here. I'd be more worried about the serious lack of funds for the monitoring of Near Earth Objects, and how to deflect them when they become a threat. Hello? Hello?

Your great, great great grandchildren will not be around to even see the effects of global warming caused by humans. You can live in a world devastated by even a worst case scenario climate change. You can not, however live in one where even a medium sized NEO has struck the planet.

What this guy argues in the video are BIG IFs. There is NO IF in whether or not a NEO will strike. It is a when.

You probably think: "Oh, I'm sure the world's governments are taking care of that and looking for these things and figuring out ways to prevent it...they can't be that stupid, can they? Right?"

Wrong.

You make an intersting point. I agree that a colision will happen, however the difference between your comments and the global warming is that a NEO is not caused by us. Global warming is a direct reaction to how we live our lives and what we do with the planet. In a nut shell, we are causing the global warming, so if we are causing it, we can do something about it.

[slytherock]

Worry about the global warming? gotta see that one.. (http://youtube.com/watch?v=Q5r6TqpOQGc) :D

[Eclecticos]

Global Warming? I though I saw something the other day about an overdue Ice age.
As for the near earth objects, I agree that is a constant threat to life as we know it.

Looks like Nasa (http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/neo/) has a little program going on to monitor it.
If you ask me we should have a big laser out there or something by now.
Or atleast something they could send toward it to set it off its path toward earth.
Here (http://szyzyg.arm.ac.uk/~spm/) is a map of know asteroids in our solar system.

The good thing is we can see them years in advance.
Apparently U.S. funding has been cut on programs that track them.

It has been said that Asteroid QQ47 Could hit us on March 21, 2014

[Crimson Sky]

however the difference between your comments and the global warming is that a NEO is not caused by us.... In a nut shell, we are causing the global warming, so if we are causing it, we can do something about it.


Even more of a reason for us to drop this global warming bull**** and focus on that which we can not control, but might be able to prevent.

Apparently, the human species is not worth a few hundred million in funding to research the next Extinction Event.

[Zephik]

Even more of a reason for us to drop this global warming bull**** and focus for the near future on that which we can not control, but might be able to prevent.

Apparently, the human species is not worth a few hundred million in funding to research the next Extinction Event.

Well DUH. I would much rather have a bitchin big screen TV that uses lasers to broadcast image. or super long lasting batteries so I can listen to my iPod for 12 hours at a time instead of the usual 7. and how about pizza pockets!? You KNOW that their has to of been tons of research gone into making those lil slices of heaven without actually using real food.

We live in a "Golden Age" because we only care about ourselves. Too few think for the future of mankind. our end isn't near, but we need to take precautions now so that the future has a better chance of being a GOOD future, like it is now. I don't want it to be too late for something that we can help prevent now.

Well, thats my .02 cents at least.

**
although I will say, I still want my bitchin laser big screen tv. :p

[jdbnsn]

I agree with Renderman about the causality of global warming. The destruction of life on earth from NEO's is vitually assured, at some point. This generation is entertaining a dream of being able to intervene, which in the future may be possible, but it is going to happen regardless of our course of action ( the number of astronomers watching the heavans could fit in a Ford Expedition). Global warming is also virtually assured, anyone who clearly understands the greenhouse effect can easily reach the conclusion that the pollutants as far back as those produced by the industrial revolution will cause the planet's surface temp to rise. What cannot be estimated easily is to what degree. This can be said however, as greenhouse gases continue to accumulate the effect becomes exponentially prominent and could very well lead to the demise of civilization. Again, we cannot know for certain this is true but the patterns of seawater salinity, global temp rise, sea level elevation, atmospheric gaseous composition, and elevation of UV ray penetration through the ozone layer, this conclusion is a very high possibility and poses a much greater risk to humanity than NEO's.

[Crimson Sky]

...this conclusion is a very high possibility and poses a much greater risk to humanity than NEO's.


See ya in 2014 when we all turn our fancy green nature friendly OLED screens on and say: "Oh..so thats what Asteroid QQ47 looks like in HD...hey if you squint it almost looks li--"


static

[OvRiDe]

As I said before,I thought the argument that was presented was very clever. It was thought provoking but I still believe that the end results for one column weren't really explored as "worst case".

Well, honestly I really haven't seen anything that conclusively proves that global warming is in fact caused by man. We haven't really been on the planet long enough to say that this isn't a normal planetary cycle. They talk about the hole in the ozone layer, yet only recently have we even gained the technology to even detect it. So really for all we know its been there for thousands of years. There are definitely environmental issues that we do control in which I think there are some steps that could be taken to curb a bit. I like the idea of alternative fuels. A lot of it just makes sense. One of the main reasons for me is being able to break the chain of being dependent on the petroleum industry. I don't think any industry should be allowed to have that much influence on our daily lives. If the bonus side of that is clean, renewable sources of energy, then thats so much the better.
As for NEO's I have to go with Crimson on this, we know for a fact it HAS happened in the past, and there is always going to be a chance it happens in the future. The problem is even if we know its coming, will we actually be able to do something about it.

[jdbnsn]

See ya in 2014 when we all turn our fancy green nature friendly OLED screens on and say: "Oh..so thats what Asteroid QQ47 looks like in HD...hey if you squint it almost looks li--"



lol... I won't be able to catch that, I'll be floating above Philadelphia in my inflatable life raft with a long beard, but I'll be sure to TIVO it.

[Crimson Sky]

hehehe TIVO. Raft. Beard. good one.

[nil8]

Global warming...hmmm...
What isn't being mentioned is that Mars is also warming at a similar rate because of the Sun and it's increased flaring over the past few years.
Another thing that's not being mentioned is the fact that Global Warming is now more politically motivated than ever, and that the idea that driving your hybrid instead of any other vehicle miraculously saves the planet is complete, 100% bull**** marketed to yuppies and fools.

I guess I'm still agnostic about it. We don't have enough info to say 100% that it is this or that. It has a better chance of being a combination of things, rather that 1 in particular.
With all that being said, we should still control and regulate our emissions standards. If it's causing GW is irrelevant. Pumping waste into the atmosphere is not a good thing and we should have enough foresight to know that it can cause us trouble in the future(*cough*LA*cough*).

As for NEO's, humans will cease to exist someday. Don't delude yourself and think we will be around forever, we won't. For all of our knowledge, skills, and abilities, we are destined to be destroyed, by ourselves or by other factors. I for one am not worried about it. Worrying doesn't help anything. Spend your money, do your testing, watch the skies, check warning signs, I'm fine with all of this, just don't expect it to stop the extinction of man. Don't expect me to intervene or join your cause either.

[rendermandan]

this just makes me want to go watch "Armageddon".

[Scorchio]

Let's assume that the majority of climate scientist's are wrong and global warming is false, is it still a good idea to be pumping pollution into the biosphere. The risks to health have been well documented, so surely it is not wrong for people to want to live in a cleaner enviroment. One that is conducive to human happiness and survival.

If scientist's spent as much money trying to convince us that global warming is a problem as the corporations have spent convincing us that it isn't, the consensus amongst the average person would be that it is indeed a problem. The evidence is stacking up in favour of GW, can we really take the chance and ignore it and hope for the best? I think that would be a ridiculous stance to take. We are decimating the land, the sea and the air. That can't be good for all the species on the planet.

[Airbozo]

Hehe Great first post Scorchio! Welcome to TBCS!

I do believe in Global Warming. What I am still on the fence about is if it is a normal cycle, a man induced cycle or a normal cycle accelerated by man's dumping of pollution into the atmosphere. One of the TLC shows I have seen on the last couple of years tried to examine some of the speculation (before it got to be so PC) about normal cycles and man's effect on it. Some of the ice cores they examined show that there is a normal, somewhat predictable cycle for warming and cooling of the planet. It was even thought that the ice caps are affecting the wobble of the earth to the point it is being thrown off axis, (something that has happened at least twice, that they know of, in the earth's history) which in turn affects the temperature of the planet. If the earth in fact IS starting to shift it's axis point, we have more to worry about than some ice. We are talking population eradicating storms. Not the whole population mind you, just large chunks of it at a time.

I have enough to worry about, so I do what I can to lessen my impact on this planet's resources and just enjoy my life.

Jon, Got room in the life raft? I'll bring the Cider...

[AJ@PR]

Nanotechnology.

It'll clean up the mess we made.

In the mean time, I'll keep on living as I do now.

Welcome to TBCS Scorchio! :)

[rendermandan]

I do what I can to lessen my impact on this planet's resources...

That is exactly what everyone should do! Well said.

[jdbnsn]

a normal cycle accelerated by man's dumping of pollution into the atmosphere. This is the most likely explaination in my opinion.


Jon, Got room in the life raft? I'll bring the Cider...

Hell yeah, you bring the cider, I'll bring the stogies, and we can troll for sea bass over Liberty Hall!

[Bucko]

I thought today's Dilbert fitted in nicely here.

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/2060/dilbert20040734706207f6ll4.png (http://imageshack.us)

[Scorchio]

Hello all! Sorry, my manners escaped me for a while. I should have introduced myself as a matter of courtesy. Just like to say, excellent forums and the mods you guys are making have blown me away!

Back on topic... One way to look at the evidence regarding the natural cycles the planet has gone through over geological time is that the human impact was so small as to be negligable. Now we have many of the same processes going on naturally plus our activities. While we may well be going through a natural cycle of warming we now have to factor in the human implications. That seems to be where the science gets a little fuzzy and the outcome's unpredictable.

In the past the planet has had things like massive forest's etc to act as carbon sink's when natural pollution events have occured (thinking things like volcanism). Now with deforestation on a massive scale and the reduction in plankton blooms (to name a few), the planets natural mechanism's for combatting these problems are being depleted. That doesn't bode well for us in the long run. I think that is why the science seems a little shaky, because there is a new factor to be taken into account... US.

[nil8]

Uh, actually deforestation is down from the 1900's. Clear cutting is illegal in several nations now and the industry is pretty closely monitored in nations where it's a real problem, with a few exceptions.
And all you ever hear about is those exceptions.

We are talking about a system of complexity that is astronomical if all the factors are accounted for.
Like the fact that we're around 15 years past due for a major volcanic eruption, which lowers the temp on the surface around a degree for a couple of decades.
Or the possibility of pole reversal, the change in weather, the solar flare impact, the carbon buildup, etc etc etc. Basically everything we've said to this point.

Still, I think the best policy is to stop pumping chemicals with unknown long term effects into the air, the land or the water. This is a pipe dream and not entirely feasible, but we could be doing better. Modify this behavior while vast swaths of people figure out what the hell is happening, if that's possible.

[Airbozo]

Good point nil8.

The numbers I heard go something like this;
IF we were to stop dumping hydrocarbon, CO2, and other toxins cold turkey today, it would take at least 50 years to see any difference. In other words, it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

Where I live (next to a state park/forest), it is even illegal to remove dead trees from public land. This is for many reasons. One is the food and shelter the fallen trees provide for the small and medium creatures in the forest. Another more surprising reason (surprised me), is that as the tree decays it gives off natural carbons (that's not surprising) that enter the atmosphere and helps the natural cycle (< that's what surprised me). Also the burning of wood in the fireplace does the same thing, only at an accelerated level. During certain times of the year we are also allowed to burn our yard waste (you should see the crap that falls from the redwood trees every year)(and they don't call 'em "widow-makers" for nothing).

Like it or not we have handed our kids and grandkids a polluted planet. We can change the way we interact with this world today, but the realization of the efforts will probably not be significant in our lifetimes. It will be up to our kids to make sure they keep up to the task of stewards of this planet. Here's your world kids, sorry for the stains and mess...

[Zephik]

So... we should invent vehicles that run OFF OF BURNING WOOD!

Actually, I think they did something like that with steam powered. So... we should switch back to steam power?

Jay Leno has a steam powered car that can reach up to 70mph, so it doesn't seem power would be an issue. Hmmm.

***
no wait, I got this one.

what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[jdbnsn]

No, we need to invent an engine that runs on pollution and emits a pleasant pine-scented oxygen exhaust.

[Zephik]

No, we need to invent an engine that runs on pollution and emits a pleasant pine-scented oxygen exhaust.

Mom's Friendly Robot Company FTW.

...and to contribute something actually useful to the topic. I thought THIS (http://blog.scifi.com/tech/archives/2007/02/05/generator_eats.html) was pretty cool. Now it just needs that fresh pine scent ;)

[jdbnsn]

Mom's Friendly Robot Company FTW

Haha! Nice, I love it when people catch Futurama references.

[OvRiDe]

No, we need to invent an engine that runs on pollution and emits a pleasant pine-scented oxygen exhaust.

Nice one :D

Actually they are sorta working on one thats similar .. ok.. its not really anything like that, but its kinda neat.

MDI is developing an AirCar. Runs off pure compressed air. Exhaust is apparently so clean they use it as the air conditioning.. heh It's really only good for city commuting in its current state, but they are working on the rest of that equation. Any who here is the web site and a video as well...

http://www.theaircar.com/

QmqpGZv0YT4

So far this one seems to be one of the better alternatives, IMO

[xRyokenx]

I know how to solve global warming. It's quite simple really, I figured that since most people think of global warming when it starts to get hot out, which is summer time, right? Well, summer is caused by the tilt in the Earth's axis, so what we need to do to solve the problem of global warming is to correct that tilt. Sure it would really screw up the ecosystem and everything, but isn't global warming going to kill the Earth anyway?

/sarcasm

I think that would work rather well though, don't ya think?

[LiTHiUM0XiD3]

pfffft... heres my honest opinion of global warming..... screw it.... we all gunna die at somepoint... get over it..... live ur life to the fullest... never regret anything (dont do things u should regret) and keep it chillin lolz

[Scorchio]

pfffft... heres my honest opinion of global warming..... screw it.... we all gunna die at somepoint... get over it..... live ur life to the fullest... never regret anything (dont do things u should regret) and keep it chillin lolz

How nice it must be to live in a world where the welfare of others is of no concern. Fortunately not all of us are of the same opinion as you. I for one appreciate the beauty and complexity of the world I live in and believe that preserving it is actually quite important. Each to his own I guess :rolleyes:

[Redundant]

Apparently, the human species is not worth a few hundred million in funding to research the next Extinction Event.
That reminds me:

President: We didn't see this thing coming?
Dan: Well, our object collison budget's about a million dollars. That allows us to track about 3% of the sky, and beg'n your pardon sir, but it's a big-ass sky.