Watercooling advice needed.

[jdbnsn]

I have recently pruchased everything I need to set up a watercooling system (Thanks Paul!). My question is this: With a loop cooling two ATI 1900's and the CPU, would I need more than one rad (80mm I think)?

[Spawn-Inc]

i have no physical experience on water cooling but from what i learned i would say no. for my setup, once i get it, its gonna cool 8800GTX, and a CPU with a thermochill 120.3.

[nil8]

You might run a little hot in a dual gpu and cpu setup, but it shouldn't be anything horrific if you don't do massive OC & have a decent fan. I would suggest a 120mm rad at least, possibly 2x120 for that setup.

[sirkillalot617]

I would agree a dual 120 rad would be the best option but if you havent got room you could try fitting 2 seperate 120 rads.

[MaxOC]

id also put the rads like this, rad, pump, cpu, gpu, rad, gpu,and back, or for better consistency on both cards,rad pump cpu rad gpu gpu back

[The boy 4rm oz]

I'm going to be using a single 120mm and a 80mm radiator to cool my C2D E6600 and ASUS 8800GTX.

[jdbnsn]

Okay, thanks for the tips!

[The boy 4rm oz]

No problem we're here to help.

[Crimson Sky]

Like I told ya in the PM (this is more for the others), that radiator is a Dual Pass 120mm, much more efficient than say a single pass 120mm--it cools off a larger quantity of water at once, since the water stays in it longer.

[Crimson Sky]

If you can fit it, get yourself a 120mm fan shroud. This helps remove the "shadow" air flow area caused by the stator rotor (center hub) of the fan by giving it a little distance from the rad, and causing more turbulence.

[Zephik]

I think THIS (http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=335&products_id=1956) is what Crimson is talking about with the shroud thing. It installs like THIS (http://www.overclockers.ru/images/lab/2005/07/11/Image27.jpg). The "Radbox" is one of the more expensive ones, but their should be cheaper ones their too. I think newegg used to have the radbox, but I couldn't find it.

Thats what your talking about isn't it Crimson?

[jdbnsn]

Ah, thanks Crimson for the tip, and thanks Snowfire for the direction. I hope that's what he was talking about cause I just ordered one.

[Crimson Sky]

sure you can call it a radbox or whatever. its a plastic box :)

[busandave]

Hi I do not know what your going to pay for your dual rad set up but it seems to me that I would go external like this one http://www.koolance.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=0_54&products_id=352


I use it and I am cooling two 1900 series gpu's my cpu, my ram 4x 1 gig sticks and 2 Hd's I never get over 40 degrees on my cpu which is p D @ 3.6 at full load. i am using the koolance pump and res too but I do not think that it really matters.

Just my 2 cents

[Crimson Sky]

Hi I do not know what your going to pay for your dual rad set up but it seems to me that I would go external like this one http://www.koolance.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=0_54&products_id=352

(http://www.koolance.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=0_54&products_id=352)

Yikes..slight overkill :eek:

[jdbnsn]

Oh CRAP!!! Now that I take it apart and start cleaning it up, I realized that I don't have a free PCI slot. I'm going to need an alternative plan.

[Zephik]

Oh CRAP!!! Now that I take it apart and start cleaning it up, I realized that I don't have a free PCI slot. I'm going to need an alternative plan.

For the tube lines right? Just drill two holes wherever you want your tubes to be and then get some rubber edging for 'em. or even, if you have a pci bracket that has some room to spare... ;)

[Spawn-Inc]

not to but in but this whole fan shround thing is confusing me sorta. does having one improve it alot or just a bit? i plan on mousting the rad on top the case about 1-1.5" so would i still need one?

sorry to hijack but this seems the best thread to ask.

[jdbnsn]

I don't know enough about the shrouds to answer that, but regarding the PCI slot, I bought a PCI controller for the pump so that it powers on with the computer. I am not sure how to power it without.

[Zephik]

I don't know enough about the shrouds to answer that, but regarding the PCI slot, I bought a PCI controller for the pump so that it powers on with the computer. I am not sure how to power it without.

Hmmm. Well... hmmm. lol thats a bit of a problem isn't it?

Do you have a wireless card? Maybe ebay it off and get a USB one?

Yep, I got nothing. lol ><

[Crimson Sky]

what is taking up all the PCI slots at the moment?

[jdbnsn]

There are only two, one is being used by the soundcard, the other by the TV tuner. I can't justify taking either out with my temps essentially under control, so the WC set up may have to wait. Some time in the near future I hope to put together a small media home server and then I can move the TV card over there.

[Spawn-Inc]

I don't know enough about the shrouds to answer that, but regarding the PCI slot, I bought a PCI controller for the pump so that it powers on with the computer. I am not sure how to power it without.

doesn't it(the pump) just plug into a molex and turns on when the pc does?

[Eclecticos]

You think if you put a mist attachment in a reservoir attached to a small submersible pump
. .used only for this purpose; a decrease in water temperature would occur?
Ive been doing some research. Apparently misting in an enclosed space allows you to maintain a constant low water temperature.

I don't think this method has been used for maintaining low water temps in a WC setup.

[.Maleficus.]

I figured I would open this back up instead of making a new thread (not too old). I've got a few questions myself.

1. I can get pumps at Menards (hardware store) for home ponds and fountains for a decent price. What should I be looking at for flow rate? Is ~200 gph sufficient? From what I've seen, they start around 170 or 180 gph and go up to 950 (watercooling specific pumps). 200 should be good?

2. Does rad placement matter too much? I'm hoping to go with a 3x120 (I'm paranoid...) and I don't really want it on top of my case. Bottom would be better.

3. Any special way I should hook up a CPU, graphics card, and (maybe) north and south bridges? Like, placement on the line.

4. Danger Den or Swiftech? I've heard good from both, but Danger Den is more expensive.


Thanks guys.

[Spawn-Inc]

1. i think the mcp655 or D4 pumps do 400gph but thats not the most important thing its how much head pressure it can handle or something. the swiftech can do 10 feet which means it can pump water up that high.


MCP655 - Technical Specifications
• Nominal voltage: 12 VDC
• Operating voltage range: 6 to 14 VDC
• Nominal power (@ 12V): 24 W
• Nominal current (@ 12V): 2 A
• Maximum head: 10 ft (3.1 m)
• Maximum flow: ~317 GPH (1200 LPH)
• Connection size: ½” OD barb (13mm)
• Maximum working pressure: 50 PSI (3.5 Bar)
• Operating temperature range: 32?F to 140?F (0?C to 60?C)
• Electrical connector: 4-pin Molex
• Weight: 1.4 lb (650 g)
• Motor type: Brushless, microprocessor controlled
• Pump MTBF*: 50,000 Hours

2. actual placement doesn't matter just airflow 80cfm or higher is best. if its on the bottem then filling should be easier too, i think.

3. i'm going to have it go to the cpu first then gpu and thats all. i will also have a triple (3 x 120mm) rad. i'm hoping it will give room to upgrade to another video card in the loop.

4. swiftech is what i will be going with for me first w/c pc once i get funds.

[.Maleficus.]

Thanks man, that's what I needed. +rep to you. Err... gotta spread it around first. Don't let me forget though ;)

So my question now is, do I buy the cheaper ~200 gph pump or spend more and get the 320 gph version? I imagine the 320 will be better overall, but do I need it?

And Swiftech it will be (for most of the stuff, anyways (easier to get too, going through Newegg)).

[Spawn-Inc]

how much more is the 320 over the 200?

are you just going with cpu and gpu (also will that be a full block or not?)

is there anyway you can find out how much "head" it can put out. from what i've been reading thats more important.

[.Maleficus.]

I think it's around $20 more. It's also not a big deal, since I have a gift certificate coming from work for being employee of the month (lol) and it's for any place in our city. I can find out all that stuff. It has it on the packaging somewhere.

This is the stuff I'm looking at.

Swiftech Apogee GTX CPU waterblock ($60 from Newegg, $75 everywhere else!)
Swiftech MCW60 graphics card waterblock with RAM sinks
Swiftech MCR320 3x120mm radiator

That's what I know I want to get, I might cool my N/S bridges, and I'll probably make my own res.

[Spawn-Inc]

well since your getting a gift card for employee of the month (nice job!) and only 20 more i would say be safe than sorry. also it should allow for future upgrades like the n/b & s/b & possibly another gpu. if the smaller pump has similar specs as the swifttech mcp655 then you might get away with it.

[.Maleficus.]

I decided I'm just going to go ahead and splurge on a good, water-cooling specific pump. At least I'll know it will do it's job. I'll use the gift card on something else, like Dremel attachments. Or mesh (...gutter guard...)

[Spawn-Inc]

cool, be sure to take pics so i can dream/prepare for my first water cooled rig.

[.Maleficus.]

cool, be sure to take pics so i can dream/prepare for my first water cooled rig.
It won't be for a while, because on top of that I need a new case too. But I am refining my part selection. Here's what I've got now.

Swiftech Apogee GTX
Swiftech MCW60 (so I can upgrade to 8800 card later ;))
Swiftech MCR320 Radiator
Swiftech MCP350 or MCP655 (MCP350 is quieter, smaller, and has a 13ft. head... and cheaper, so I'm stuck)
2 Swiftech MCW30 Chipset blocks
PrimoFlex 1/2in. UV Blue tubing
PrimoChill PC ICE Non-Conductive Fluid
Various clamps, adapters, etc.

What do you think? Sound ok?

[Eclecticos]

In an attempt to make a Homemade watercooling system,
I am looking for the right type of pump that will be needed to do the job. I found This (http://www.aquariumguys.com/supreme4.html) one, will it work?

http://www.aquariumguys.com/supreme4.html

[dyingstar]

To Eclecticos: The website you listed doesn't have any information about the strength of the pump. Unless this is the info:
Warranty: 3 year limited warranty from date of purchase. 2'-250gph Does that mean it is guaranteed to have 2 feet of head and pump 250 gallons per hour for 3 years? Did I miss something?

[.Maleficus.]

I guess it would work, but how well I don't know.

[Spawn-Inc]

To Eclecticos: The website you listed doesn't have any information about the strength of the pump. Unless this is the info: Does that mean it is guaranteed to have 2 feet of head and pump 250 gallons per hour for 3 years? Did I miss something?

thats what i was thinking it meant, and if so then not very well. i think you should be looking for at least 8+ head. and the GPH is a little low at 250.

[Eclecticos]

250 is not enough? Well the Vantec STG-100 pump is 180gph,
the Gigabyte Galaxy is 105gph.

For some reason or another I think to much pressure could cause
. .faults in the seal over time.

In my case with the Pyramid Resevoir. . I wouldn't doubt the need for a larger pump.

[Spawn-Inc]

it might be then when it comes to water cooling i'm going only by what i've read of the internet. what are you going to water cool just a cpu? and what rad/size? if its 120mm rad with only cpu i say go for it going by what the pumps you listeed do.

[.Maleficus.]

250 is not enough? Well the Vantec STG-100 pump is 180gph,
the Gigabyte Galaxy is 105gph.

For some reason or another I think to much pressure could cause
. .faults in the seal over time.

In my case with the Pyramid Resevoir. . I wouldn't doubt the need for a larger pump.
Those are kits with only a CPU block, right? If that's the case, then that's why the have a low flow rate. They are designed to be a cool watercooling solution for you CPU and not much more.

And I'm sure there's no problems with pressure, especially because they have 950+ gph pumps out there for watercooling.

[Spawn-Inc]

i think he's worrying about the res he found/converted into a res. i might go for the next model up for some upgrade like a video card block (not the full length one the GPU one only, plus you can upgrade as you go)

[jdbnsn]

I found This one, will it work?

Keep in mind also that the pump you are looking at probably plugs into the wall 110V rather than 12V supplied by your computer. If so, you will need a PCI controller card like this (http://cgi.ebay.com/CRITICOOL-PCI-Pump-Relay-REV2_W0QQitemZ330104611548QQihZ014QQcategoryZ80150 QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem) to power it.

[Spawn-Inc]

Keep in mind also that the pump you are looking at probably plugs into the wall 110V rather than 12V supplied by your computer. If so, you will need a PCI controller card like this (http://cgi.ebay.com/CRITICOOL-PCI-Pump-Relay-REV2_W0QQitemZ330104611548QQihZ014QQcategoryZ80150 QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem) to power it.

or leave it on all the time, which i've heard some people do. i wouldn't personally for longer life but you can if you want.

[.Maleficus.]

or leave it on all the time, which i've heard some people do. i wouldn't personally for longer life but you can if you want.
Not to mention the extreme waste of electricity.

[jdbnsn]

I swear it's going to be years before I get this damned WC system installed, every time I think I have everything I need I'm wrong. Today, I had absolutely everything needed, including replacement high flow fittings for the GPU blocks to match the 1/2" tubing. Of all things, the damned threading was wrong!!! So I just ordered new fittings which will take a week to get here. grrrr...

Question for you all, my cpu block has three fittings and I don't know if it matters but should I use the center for inflow and laterals for outflow? Also, is there a way to tell which port on the pump is the outflow?

[Spawn-Inc]

that sucks, when i order mine i will be sure to check for threads.

umm not sure if it matters i think i personally would have the center as inlet since the cpu is right behind it so all the cool water will hit the copper right above the cpu.
ya hook it up to a bucket of water. what pump? noramally the inlets are in the middle.

[jdbnsn]

I think you are right about the center inlet. this (http://www.dangerden.com/store/product.php?productid=175&cat=4&page=1) Is the pump.

[Spawn-Inc]

ya inlet is in the middle and outlet is at the top. the way it works is by centrifuging the water making it speed up along the way there for pumping the water around the loop. also if that fails you can just look at the pump in this picture (http://www.dangerden.com/store/files/images/pumps/d5/d5_front_view_800w.jpg). the arrow is point in the direction of flow.

[The boy 4rm oz]

Spawn's right. Center is inlet two outside sockets are outlet. This is meant to cool the chip more efficiently because more liquid is being passed over it. The downside to this method is having a "Y" adapter the bring to tho outlets back in to a single tube. Most people would think it's fine but I think it's ugly not to mention can get a bit cramped for smaller cases.

[jdbnsn]

Woohoo! I finally got my first watercooling setup installed!!! It's running like a champ too, I bought a Danger Den pump so I could run it straight off a molex. I'll post some pics if/when I get the cable management under control (looks like Medusa right now).

[The boy 4rm oz]

Thats great, good for you. I am just about to order mine haha hope i don't get a leak lol.

[Killdrath]

New to WC myself, but in the case of the 3 connecter CPU block, could you use that and have each of the two outlets going to each of a dual-GPU setup? Basically use the cpu block as a t adapter? What about using that to split between GPU and NB? I'm assuming you'd have to make sure the flow resistance on each path was similar, to ensure proper flow, but could it be done?

Hoping to put my first WC system soon myself. Hopefully I can fit a dual rad into my design somewhere. (Lian-li V1000 Plus II case)

[Spawn-Inc]

ya i think that would work, that actually makes it alot easier than stuffing a Y in the system, i see no problem with it.

[Killdrath]

Well, I look forward to trying my hand at making a system soon. The case I'm using (Lian-Li V1000 Plus II) doesnt look like it will fit a double rad, so I might end up with two seperate rads, probably like:

Rad-pump-CPU-rad-NB/GPU

[The boy 4rm oz]

That would work. I have seen someone use a outlet to cool the ram as the other one goes to the GPU.

[.Maleficus.]

I have another question (I think I'm about to order some stuff). If I'm cooling my CPU, GPU, and N/S Bridges, should I get 2 rads or 1 3x120? I was thinking about the Swiftech MCR320, but then my setup would be like Pump > CPU > GPU > NBridge > SBridge > Rad > Res, right? And wouldn't the water be pretty warm when it finally got to the SBridge? Or could I use a Y splitter to split from the GPU to the N/SBridges, and then another to go back to the rad? The water would still be pretty warm though...

[The boy 4rm oz]

for my current system i'm going res-pump-cpu-80mm rad-gpu-120mm rad-res I would go for two rads over 1, especially if your using the Shark.

[learning2mod]

@ Maleficus...its best to go directly from the radiator to you CPU then down the loop ending in your res ,then to pump and all over again. I have done many test with different combo's and I have had the best results like the above. As far as putting a rad "in" the loop the benefits are questionable. I personally couldnt tell a difference in my loop when I put my thermochill 120.1 in between the CPU and GPU. My loop is like this PUMP,PA120.1,PA120.3,CPU,NB,GPU,RES..back to pump.
My E6600 stays @ 3.6ghz w/1.4325 and my temps are 42c idle @ 60c load...the GPU is about 40c load. My CPU would be lots kooler if I didnt have all the other stuff in the same loop...BTW my water temps rarely get above 33c.thats taken in the res before the radiators

[.Maleficus.]

So I should be good using a 120.3 rad with a CPU, GPU, and north and south bridges? Because that would be the best route for me, as it's less expensive and cleaner looking.

Any other opinions? So far I have one for and one against, and I don't know what to do. I'm not really in any rush, since I don't get paid for another week(ish) but I could start planning if I knew...

[Spawn-Inc]

i personally, with no actual experience, just lots of reading, would go with 2 rads. i would set the loop up like this. 120.2 > pump > CPU > N/B > 120.1 > GPU > S/B > res. thats what i think i'm going to do once the pc is built, minus the n/s and s/b cooling.

[The boy 4rm oz]

Two rads would cool better, you just need room to mount them.

[learning2mod]

@ Spawn....If you go from your rad to your pump you will have to deal with the pump dumping heat into the loop. The pump may only dump a marginal amount but my the time you add all the marginal amounts together you get larger amounts that isnt really needed. I dont like cooling the water until it go into the CPU water block....anything else and the water may be increasing in temp. Remember with standard water cooling the best you can hope for in ambient temps , the inside of the case is hotter than that and if after the water is kooled by the rad it floats around in a res or goes through the pump it will only increase:( ....I have found a small gain from keeping the rad OUT of the TOP of the case also. I personally like to mount my 120.3 on TOP of the case and my 120.1 is mounted inside drawing air from outside of the case. The 120.1 is also the FIRST rad in my loop. the water exits the pump and travels there gets kooled a little then it goes to the 120.3 and using as short as a hose that I can it goes to the CPU...then down the MOBO to the various other parts:up:

[w0lv3r1n3]

You could do a dual-dual setup.. In other words, two seperate
systems.. That's what i did with my system..
I have a Swiftech MCP350 pump-Antartica CPU Block-
BIack ice II 240 Rad-Thermaltake 5 1/4 bay res back to pump.

Then I have a Waterchill Extreme pump-Chipset Block-120 Rad back to pump..

You could do something like that.. One complete setup for the
Video Cards, on for just the CPU.. BOTH would run cooler then.. I have those
SilentX fans and they move a good amount of air and are very quiet..

Just a thought..

[The boy 4rm oz]

Yeah duel loops are good, you just have to make sure your pump can handle it. There is also the fact that a lot more tubing will be in your system.

[w0lv3r1n3]

That is true.. But i thought i saw he has a Lian-Li
V2000.. that case is huge! I ordered the same one.. lol
Oh and my dual has two pumps. so no problems

[The boy 4rm oz]

Good point about the case, must have missed it. Yeah if i ever did duel looks it would be using two separate pumps.

[.Maleficus.]

New Q for all of you.

I'd just like to know the mobility of a watercooled system. If everything is tightened up and secure, I shouldn't have any problems taking it to the occasional LAN, right? That'd be a big deciding factor on if I'm watercooling still.

[The boy 4rm oz]

I hope it is ok, that's what I intend to do with mine. If everything is all done up tightly there shouldn't be a problem (correct me if I'm wrong guys). You could always drain the coolant and when you get to the LAN re-fill it, but that's a lot of stuffing around.

[Spawn-Inc]

i'd sooner worry about having a sonic tower in my case than water cooling. i would say so long as everything is bolted down (res) and tight then i wouldn't worry about it.

[The boy 4rm oz]

That's what I thought. No leaks, no problem.

[Spawn-Inc]

if you have a res and you have to turn the case upside down or on its side you might have to run it for a bit to get the air out of the lines if any gets in(from the air space in the res).

[.Maleficus.]

If I buy a bottle of coolant, and there isn't enough to fill my system, can I just put in like, distilled water, or do I need to buy another bottle of coolant?

[Spawn-Inc]

is it coolant or additive? if its additive you should mix distilled water with it and not fill it completely with it. but if its coolant i suppose you could mix distilled water with it. if they(w/e brand you have) claim lower temps vs. plain distilled water then you will not get them depending on how much you dilute the coolant. if your system uses about two bottles (500ml each bottle) i would say get a second or don't go with it at all.

[.Maleficus.]

It's a coolant (I'm looking at Fluid-XP+ HP). And since I don't know how much I'm going to need... *shrugs* At $22 a bottle, I don't want to buy 2 and use 1/4 of the second bottle. I suppose I could get one, and if it's really necessary, get another, or just use water.

[Spawn-Inc]

i'm not sure but i thought i remember reading that crimson sky tried it in his doom 3 pc and it screwed up the lines or something. have you ordered it yet? and do you have the water cooling system yet? if you have the system i would set it up and dump water in it and see how much you need for sure. at $22 a bottle i would want to use at least 1/2 the bottle. i'm not sure ho often you have to change it and i'm not sure if it changes from distilled water vs coolant or if its the same.

[The boy 4rm oz]

I would get two bottles anyway. You will have to refill cos it will evaporate and it's always to be safe then sorry :)