First "Mod"

[Bajawoojie]

Hello, I am almost 100% new to the whole moding scene, and am hoping to move the internal parts (My hardware) of my computer to the case of one of my old computers, but i'm not sure how to go about it.

First off, how would I go about making sure all of my parts are going to fit into there, such as my motherboard? Or are all motherboards the same size? If so, how do I know there will be a place for it to screw in where I want it to, and for the PCI slots to line up with the corresponding opening in the case?

Second, once I finish moving all of my stuff to the other case, what about more fans? My computer currently only has one fan, in which has some type of doohickey in which allows that fan ONLY to withdraw air from my CPU, so I asked around and I was told that I plug fans into the three prong plugs scattered randomly about my motherboard, but I don't have any. Does that mean I cant get any more fans?

Last question, What about lighting? Everyone wants some kind of fancy lights illuminating your case to show off to friends, but how do you power them? Is there some sort of jig in which plugs into one of the extra cords coming from the power supply, and distributes that power to whatever lighting stuff you plug into it? Or does it plug into the same place(s) as the fan as described above.

I really hope to get further into computer moding, so ANY help/suggestions would be wonderful. Like if there are any tutorials specifically for switching cases.

- Bajawoojie

[Spawn-Inc]

Hello, I am almost 100% new to the whole moding scene, and am hoping to move the internal parts (My hardware) of my computer to the case of one of my old computers, but i'm not sure how to go about it.
so first off, welcome to TBCS and moding too, hope you got lots of time on your hands. your gonna need it when you get the mod bug.




First off, how would I go about making sure all of my parts are going to fit into there, such as my motherboard? Or are all motherboards the same size? If so, how do I know there will be a place for it to screw in where I want it to, and for the PCI slots to line up with the corresponding opening in the case?
yes there are different types of motherboards. the most commom being ATX here is a list i found of types of form factors/sizes.

PC motherboards
Following is a list of motherboard types and form factors that have been used in PCs since the first IBM PC in 1981:


Maximum Size
Year Width-Length
Intr. Type In Inches

BTX (Balanced Technology Extended)
2004 BTX 12.8 - 10.5
2004 microBTX 10.4 - 10.5
2004 picoBTX 8 - 10.5

ATX (Advanced Technology Extended)
1999 FlexATX 9 - 7.5
1997 microATX 9.6 - 9.6
1996 Mini ATX 11.2 - 8.2
1995 ATX 12 - 9.6
1995 EATX 12 - 13 Extended ATX

LOW PROFILE (Expansion cards plug into riser)
2002 EmbATX 9.6 - 9.6 Embedded ATX
1997 NLX 9 - 13.6 NLX=New Low Profile
1987 LPX 9 - 13 Western Digital
1987 Mini LPX 9 - 11 Western Digital

MISCELLANEOUS
2002 Mini ITX 6.7 - 6.7 VIA Technologies
1998 WTX 14 - 16.75 Workstation TX

FIRST PCs
1987 Micro AT 8.5 - 8.5
1987 Baby AT 8.5 - 13
1984 AT 12 - 13
1981 PC/XT 8.5 - 13

now i'm gonna guess that yours is ATX. do you know the model number/company of motherboard you have? i would put more stuff about it but i don't know how to put it into words. but i do know thats the only thing you have to worry about size.



Second, once I finish moving all of my stuff to the other case, what about more fans? My computer currently only has one fan, in which has some type of doohickey in which allows that fan ONLY to withdraw air from my CPU, so I asked around and I was told that I plug fans into the three prong plugs scattered randomly about my motherboard, but I don't have any. Does that mean I cant get any more fans?
fans with 3 pin connectors are for fans that tell you the RPM's. you can add fans that have a molex connecter by adding it to the power supply. this is a molex connecter.
http://pictures.xbox-scene.com/xbox360/360sata/Molex-style-power-connector.jpg



Last question, What about lighting? Everyone wants some kind of fancy lights illuminating your case to show off to friends, but how do you power them? Is there some sort of jig in which plugs into one of the extra cords coming from the power supply, and distributes that power to whatever lighting stuff you plug into it? Or does it plug into the same place(s) as the fan as described above.
lights are added the same as i listed above with a molex connecter. you can get CCFL (cold cathode Fluorescent Lights) lights
http://cablecrazy.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/CCLD12UV-2.jpg
http://www.dansdata.com/images/bluelights/cpccc500.jpg
LED lights
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/images/products/FlexLight-PR_01.jpg
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/images/products/MDLED5BL_01.jpg
and Liquid Neon Fluorescent Lamp
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/images/large/products/SBLNBL_1_t_LRG.jpg

[Bajawoojie]

The motherboard is the stock motherboard in a Dell Dimension 8300, but I really don't want to open it to search for any numbers at the moment, because just a while ago I opened it to try and dust out where the graphic card is, but now for some reason there are little lines in random places, such as around the mouse. Or when I open up Counterstrike Source, theres a big checkerboard type pattern, but instead of black and red its regular and fuzzy.. Note that it is a Radeon 9800 Pro 128mb.

Any ideas on what kind of case I should get? The extra one I have laying around turns out to be plastic on the front, top, and side, with a metal frame inside and an aluminum removable side panel for access, so I'm going to assume I wont be able to use that one.

[Bucko]

With a Dell, you might be stuck. Others will know more, but some Dell products use their own motherboard and they won't fit a standard ATX case.

With your video card, what did you use to dust it? If you used a vacuum cleaner, or a brush, you may have damged the card with static electricity. You should only use compressed air (either canned or from a compressor) to get rid of the dust.
You could try removing the card and reseating it and see if that works.

[Spawn-Inc]

yes on my old computer i hit the video card by mistake once and it wouln't boot up. so i looked at it and poped it back in and it was working again.

[Bajawoojie]

I just blew it off, to get the dust bunny out of the heat sink. (I usually just use my vacuum since I can reverse it and have it blow the air out of the tube with just about the same force as a can of air ^_^

It's done this once about 2 years ago, but I cant remember what I did to fix it or if it was just time.

Aside from all of that ^^^^^^, What can I do for a new case? Could someone link me to a decent, but cheap one that would probably suit my needs? I will update this post in a few minutes once I measure my motherboard.

***EDIT*** Alright, my motherboards size is approximately 10 1/2" x 10 1/2"

[Bucko]

Can you take a picture of your motherboard in the case for us? We'll probably be able to tell if it's ATX or not with a half decent picture.

[Bajawoojie]

Sure thing, let me go find a camera that has better quality then my web cam.

On a side note, taking the graphic card out and dusting it a bit and whatnot didnt fix it.. the only places im seeing problems are while its starting up (The windows loading screen). The bottom of the mouse looks like it has lines going through it, and once I log in, it waits a few seconds - turns white with black stripes and then goes back to normal..

Alright, I couldnt get a better camera to work so all I could get is a horrible picture =/
http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/3038/untitledhe1.png
But now after opening it, my graphics are even more screwed up, there are red and blue transparent lines going through the screen horizontally. And blue blocks, I really dont know what to do except hope it goes away with time.

[Bajawoojie]

Alright, I have come to the decision that my card is overheating. I shut down my computer after it running for all of about 5 minutes, with no games or anything being played. I then removed the graphic card, and it was extremely hot. Hot enough to probably burn you if you held it for more then 6 seconds in one spot.. But since I have never done any computer hardware work prior to this I'm not sure what to expect, but I personally think that is pretty hot..

[Bucko]

It does look like an aTX, but it's pretty hard to see the detials to make sure it isn't doing something strange.

as for the video card, that does sound rather hot. Does it have a fan on it, or just a heatsink?

[Bajawoojie]

I know my web cam is horrible =(

But yeah, its a heat sink with a fan. Both the heat sink, and the card itself are very hot, I wouldn't hold my finger on the heat sink for more then a few seconds right after I turn the comp off..

But I just swiped the graphic card (Raedon 9250 256mb I think) out of my bros computer and put it in here for now.. My Radeon 9800 pro was only 128 mb of memory, so does that mean his will work better then mine? Even though its an older version? (Completely disregarding the problems I'm having with mine)

[Bucko]

I'm not sure on cards performance, but is it doing the same thing in your Brothers computer? It could be a good way to see if there is a problem with the card if you haven't tried it on his.

Also, is the fan actually working on the video card?

[Bajawoojie]

I didn't actually finish the swipe yet, I'm going to tomorrow. But his card is working fine in my comp now.. And yeah, the fan works.

[Bucko]

Let us know after you have tried the card in his PC, as if your PC is fine with his, it really is seeming like a borked video card.

[Bajawoojie]

Alright, but either way i'm getting a new video card. After a round of Counterstrike Source, I learned that his card is pretty bad compared to mine(And his doesn't support dual monitors) - and mine was bad enough. Does anyone have any suggestions on which card to get? I heard that the Geforce 8600GT is pretty good (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150229), and it has a nice price.

[Bucko]

Does your MoBo have a PCiE x16 port for the video card, or is it AGP? That will be the biggest influence for you decision.

[Bajawoojie]

AGP, but I'm really debating on weather or not I want to just start fresh with a new mobo and case. I really don't want to go and buy a new graphic card, having my computer itself being about 6 years old. I was browsing around new egg at mobo's, and I was seeing alot of atx motherboards with 939 sockets and I'm fairly sure thats what mine currently is. That way I could buy a new mobo for now, and just get the case later.

**Edit** Wouldn't it make a lot more sense for us to talk on Yahoo?

[Bucko]

Think about your budget and what you may want to spend. Buying a new motherboard for no real reason seems a waste of money if yours is still working.

Either buy a decent AGP card for what you have, or save your pennies and upgrade the whole machine.

PS, what specs is you current PC if it's 6 years old?

[Spawn-Inc]

if you upgrade motherboard your undoubtedly going to have to upgrade ram as well. my old Gefocre 4 MX 400 on my old pc is friggen hot, right at the core. the heatsink if you want to call it that is completely useless so i lapped it and snaded the core a bit, only took the lettering off. i'm not sure if it helped since i have no temp probe on it.

[Bajawoojie]

6 Years old is an estimate, though it may be off by up to a year either way. But me not being the hardware type as you can obviously tell by now, all I can tell you is that its an
Intel Pentium 4 2.66 Ghz processor,
1 gig ram (2x 256mb, 1x 512mb) PC2700 DDR2
What seems to be micro BTX motherboard:

BTX (Balanced Technology Extended)
2004 BTX 12.8 - 10.5
2004 microBTX 10.4 - 10.5
2004 picoBTX 8 - 10.5,
4 PCI Express slots,
1 AGP slot
A pretty low voltage power supply (I get a low power voltage message every time I boot),
2 2.5"*5.5" front bays
2 2.5"*3.5" front bays
(I think I got those bays dimensions right)
And one fan.

My reasoning to get a new motherboard was simply because this one is old. My explanation of that reason:
If I were to go out and buy a new graphic card meant specifically for an AGP slot (Is that what its called, AGP slot?), then later on once my motherboard actually does die - motherboards with an AGP slot wont be very popular/efficient if I'm told correctly by someone who says they are old as itis. Therefore causing me to have to get a new motherboard, AND a graphic card, and possibly any other things I get in the time in between.

[Bucko]

Your PCi slots are in the wrong spot for a BTX layout, which looks like this:

http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/1800/11btx8e66876ab6.png (http://imageshack.us)

[Bajawoojie]

But I measured the motherboard earlier and it came out to be ~10.5" x ~10.5", and the micro BTX is the closest thing to those dimensions.

Anyways, I gotta get to bed. I will be back in about 8 hours. Thanks for any/all help ^_^

[Bucko]

It's probably a Dell motherboard and has it's own dimensions. See how the BTX layout is, if that was in your case the PCI slots would be at the top of the case, not at the bottom.
You don't have PCI Express slots either, just PCI. PCIe 8x and 16x is the video card slot, PCIe x1 is a small black slot, less than half the length of your white slots.

[Bajawoojie]

Oh, that makes sense to me. But then doesn't that mean I have no choice except to get a new motherboard if I ever had to get a new case?

I'm now also convinced that my graphic card is overheating, since thats what everyone I talk to says is probably going on. And that Radeon's have a history of overheating. So what im wondering is how I could go about getting another fan in my computer..

Being a Dell of course they had to go try to make it easy open or something, so they made it open like a clam, and has a metal interior and plastic exterior therefore making it pretty hard to cut any kind of holes in the case without messing something else up. So the only option I seem to have left is a 3.5"x2.5" bay fan to go in the front and draw air in, so my fan in the back can suck it out to have a constant flow. But I cant find any with those dimensions =(

***EDIT*** Scratch that, there is no possible way a new fan will even help me. My computer is completely trashed. After many years of heavy usage, its finally dying on me. My sound card no longer works, so I have to use the on board sound. My video card wont work, so I have to use my bros which apparently doesn't support direct x. So I cant play any games, and other minor problems.. What I plan on doing is getting a motherboard with a case that it fits in (Nothing fancy). And using the RAM from my current computer in it, along with my brothers video cards. Then once I save up the money I will get a new video card.

Does anyone think that is a bad plan?

[Spawn-Inc]

if you get a new mobo, what are you going to transfer over? the cpu, ram, hdd, cd/dvd drives, and brothers video card? i personally would save up the cash and buy a new pc altogether, your not going to be able to get much more use out of a 5-6 year old pc, pending your a current gamer.

[Bajawoojie]

If I were to get a new mobo, I would have to get a case (I looked on my mobo and its a dell :neutral: ), but I would hope to be able to transfer over the RAM, DVD drives(2), hard drive, processor, and video card. Then I would slowly update as it comes necessary.

But I guess getting a new computer itself would be a good idea too, except i'm having the problems right now - not in a month or two when I have the money for a whole new PC.

[Moofaa]

Trust me, wait a month or two.

I find upgrading to be a pain in rear. Adding more RAM can be fine up to a point. With this day and age of SLI cards, starting with one and buying a second one a few months later is acceptable.

Not worth upgrading a PC thats 5-ish years old, least of all for gaming. Most of the newer hardware isn't going to be compatible with older tech, and even if it is the older stuff will be more prone to failure or hold back the performance of the new parts.

I'm running a Athlon xp 2100+, 1gb RAM, and a Geforce4 TI4600 right now. As soon as intels quad-core processor drops this month (rumor mill has it going for 266$ around the 22nd) I plan on getting a new PC altogether. After I copy what I need from my old 60bg HD over to my new 500GB one, the old system gets wiped, cleaned up, and given over to my mom.

[Bajawoojie]

Alright, you guys know A LOT more about this stuff then I do, so I will take your advice and wait ^_^, but I am ordering a new graphic card. The Radeon X1600XT for $74.99 to tide me over for another couple years, then I will be off to college and wont have to worry as much about gaming =D

[Spawn-Inc]

like i said i think its best to wait for a new pc. i know its not fun but it will be once you have a new rig. i'm still saving for my pc, about 3000 with water cooling. right now i have a case, floppy drive, and dvd drive. i will be getting a power supply next maybe. unless there are really good sales on other parts.

[Bajawoojie]

But to save for a new PC it would take me a few months =/ being 15 and all, and I don't think even you could go a few months without doing what you love.

[Redundant]

Well, for around $600, you can get quite a nice setup.
I threw these links together in 5 minutes:

Processor: Intel C2D e6300 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115005)
RAM: Corsair 2x1GB DDR2 800 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145034)
Video: XFX 8600 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150229)
Motherboard: ASUS, Intel socket 775 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131142)
PSU: Corsair 520watt (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139001)

Add a few fans ($20 at most), pick an ATX case ($40 to $60), add your drives from the old PC and tada: you have a new, fast PC that supports DirectX 10 and 64-bit computing.

8)

EDIT: If you need a video card to hold yourself over while you save up, just buy a cheap $30 one that you can keep just for testing in the future.

[Bajawoojie]

I like the support but I don't have $600 to spend, so I guess I will just hold off until I get a job.

[Bucko]

If you do buy that video card, you will be limited to AGP, which most new computers don't even run anymore, so you'll be up for another video card when you do upgrade.

[Bajawoojie]

Why am I limited to AGP? What about PCI? I have 2 extra PCI slots.

[Bucko]

You have PCI slots on your MoBo, yes, but PCI cards are worse than AGP cards when it comes to graphics.
Modern video cards use PCIe (otherwise known as PCI Express) x16 slot. It's completely different to a PCI slot, and something you don't have unless you buy a new MoBo.

Your computer is at the point you either spend the minmum to keep it going and save for a new PC, or you waste a whole lot of money to end up with a computer that can be easliy out performed for similar money to what you have spent in the end anyway.

[Bajawoojie]

I really wish you would answer on YIM so we could have this convo in real time, but how is PCIe that much better then PCI?

[Bucko]

I don't have Yahoo Instant messenger.

PCIe is the current format which is adopted by card makers now for performance cards. PCIe can transfer more data too.
Even if PCI was the same data flow as each other, go and look for a decent PCI video card and watch yourself come back empty handed. Simply no-one makes a good card for PCI.

[Bajawoojie]

Oh, I misunderstood what it says in your profile =p Do you have a messenger that I could talk to you on though? It would be mighty helpful.

Other then that, I'm not one of those fussy stuck up gamers in which complain about every single FPS they can or cant get. So I ordered that X1600XT PCI card, which is going to be ALOT better then what I had before (Radeone 9800 Pro, 128 MB AGP). So i'm not too worried about getting every possible FPS, or whatever it is most people want.

As long as this card lets me play games without massive lag when I put them onto medium settings, all will be fine.

[Bucko]

got a link to the video card you are buying?

I use MSN for messenging too.

[Bajawoojie]

Mind just telling me your MSN really quick so we dont have to keep talking back and fourth through here?

[Bucko]

bikerbucko2000@yahoo.com.au as it says in the instant message thing in my profile. Just don't try and email me on it. I never look at it anymore since it got over run by spam, so I abandoned it.

[Bucko]

And where's the link to the card. I have a feeling you've ordered a card that doesn't fit you machine.