Wireless Internet [Archive] - TBCS Community Forums

Spawn-Inc

07-20-2007, 04:40 PM

so i did a search and couldn't really find the anwser so i'm going to start a thread.

with my new computer slowly on its way to being built i'm going to have to hook up the internet. its in the basement (my computer) and my router is upstairs. we've always wanted to upgrade to wireless but never really needed to. so i made a proposistion to my dad and he said he will pay half the cost of setting it up (buying the router) so i have a couple of questions. i currenty have rogers hispeed Express internet which claims 7mb/s.

1. from what i see and read the best is Linksys and Dlink. is Linksys worth the price? i'm not fully sure of the amount were willing to spend just yet.

2. i like to game and download so i was thinking a N vs G (not sure if thats how you would phrase it) .

3. is there any lag or speed decrease going with wireless?

4. on the computer end of the reciver which is better pci cards or usb? (i'm thinking pci)

5. is there any difference between Dlink Xtreme N Wireless Router and DLink Wireless RangeBooster N Router? enough to justify 50 extra.

6. my motherboard(evga NF68-A1) has 2 ethernet ports for a feature that lets you have one dedicated for outgoing and one for incoming, will i be able to setup something like that with wireless?

7. can you mix brands? if you get a Dlink wireless router can you get a linksys network card?

8. if i get the fastest wireless router can i buy a lower rated card for the pc and still have it work, just at lower speeds?
i.e. Dlink Xtreme N Wireless Router with a D-Link RangeBooster G Desktop Adapter

thats all i can think of for now.

SgtM

07-20-2007, 05:16 PM

My answers are in red

1. from what i see and read the best is Linksys and Dlink. is Linksys worth the price? i'm not fully sure of the amount were willing to spend just yet.
I have (and have always used) Linksys products. Can't go wrong with them. They're owned by Cisco.

2. i like to game and download so i was thinking a N vs G (not sure if thats how you would phrase it) .
802.11N is faster than 802.11G
Wiki article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/802.11)

3. is there any lag or speed decrease going with wireless?
Compared to 100/1000 wired, you will notice a bit of a difference. Usually enough to know it's there, but nothing like dial up.

4. on the computer end of the reciver which is better pci cards or usb? (i'm thinking pci)
You're thinking right. PCI would be much better. You'll see some latency going through USB.

5. is there any difference between Dlink Xtreme N Wireless Router and DLink Wireless RangeBooster N Router? enough to justify 50 extra.
Can you post model numbers so I can make a comparison? If I'm thinking right, the Wireless RangeBooster N Router is just a Range Booster. Basically, you would use that in conjunction with a wireless router or Access Point to boost your signal if it's getting low.

6. my motherboard(evga NF68-A1) has 2 ethernet ports for a feature that lets you have one dedicated for outgoing and one for incoming, will i be able to setup something like that with wireless?
I think you can, but I've never tried it.

7. can you mix brands? if you get a Dlink wireless router can you get a linksys network card?
Yes.

8. if i get the fastest wireless router can i buy a lower rated card for the pc and still have it work, just at lower speeds?
i.e. Dlink Xtreme N Wireless Router with a D-Link RangeBooster G Desktop Adapter
There are a few that don't play well with others, but it's rare. I would say go for it.

thats all i can think of for now.

Spawn-Inc

07-20-2007, 05:40 PM

5. is there any difference between Dlink Xtreme N Wireless Router and DLink Wireless RangeBooster N Router? enough to justify 50 extra.
Can you post model numbers so I can make a comparison? If I'm thinking right, the Wireless RangeBooster N Router is just a Range Booster. Basically, you would use that in conjunction with a wireless router or Access Point to boost your signal if it's getting low.

here is the links to the two product above. and thanks for the fast reply, +rep.

DLink Wireless RangeBooster N Router (http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0926INGFS10076846&logon=&langid=EN)

Dlink Xtreme N Wireless Router (http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0926INGFS10082039&logon=&langid=EN)

Omega

07-20-2007, 05:55 PM

Spawn-Inc

07-20-2007, 05:57 PM

so i won't get a speed drop or big enough. is it like a 680i thing? its new but to new right now.

Zephik

07-20-2007, 06:21 PM

I would just stick with G (and get Linksys SRX200/400). I run a Linksys SRX400 PCI card on an SRX200 router (mimo at that, I've got three antennas and the router has two). Plus it's G which is still an accepted standard (which N is not yet, so widespread support for it doesn't exist).

;)

I'll second that Omega. I'll also second everything SgtM said as well.

Just be sure your card is the same as your router if you get something special. Like rangebooster, speedbooster, srx, etc.

I had a Speed Booster PCI card for my old dell awhile back, but I didn't realize at the time that you needed the Speed Booster Router as well. So, at the time, I spent $35 more dollars than I needed to. But it payed off for a short while when I moved in with one of my friends temporarily, he had a Speed Booster Router. I can't say I noticed a difference though, because he had fast ass cable whereas I have always used mediocre DSL.

As for wireless N, wait for it to become more mainstream. ie when it starts replacing wireless G. If that will ever even happen, I almost doubt it. Wireless-G SRX400 kicks ass from what I keep hearing.

Oh yea, MIMO is awesome. It stands for Multiple In and Multiple Out. Just like having two LAN ports on your computer. You can set those up to send and receive dedicatedly. With MIMO, it does exactly that. or at least thats how I've come to understand it. Does anyone want to confirm that? Does anyone also want to tell me what the third antenna is for if thats true? lol never quite got that.

One last thing. Linksys is a great brand. I've used them in the past multiple times and they have yet to let me down. Also, because they are so widely used, they have better support than most. Not that you will ever really need it other than for drivers if you loose your install cd. ^_^

xRyokenx

07-20-2007, 07:47 PM

When you get a PCI card, make sure you get one with an external antenna, it makes all the difference. I had a USB one and it sucked, I lost connection on a regular basis and with the PCI it holds a very good connection and I'm through a few walls and about 50 feet or more away.

Spawn-Inc

07-20-2007, 09:08 PM

ok so i thansk for all the help + rep to the rest of ya'll so from all that info above go with
1. a Linksys G (regular or speedboost, i'm thinking speed boost.) router
2. a PCI card style receiver with a external antenna.
i would go with a Linksys G + speedbooster (http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0926INGFS10043626&logon=&langid=EN) and a Linksys G PCI Card With SpeedBooster (http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0926INGFS10043629&logon=&langid=EN) for my pc and a Linksys Wireless-G PCI Adapter (http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0926INGFS10025643&catid=21115) for my dad's computer?

though with these prrices i'm thinking a 100 feet of ethernet would be cheaper... it sounds like some of you have had experience with this dual ethernet port setup so my question is if you split the cable (one for in and one for out) won't it just bottle neck at the router?

xRyokenx

07-20-2007, 09:13 PM

I tried having a long amount of ethernet cable and lemme tell ya, it was annoying. Just go with wireless, it's easier to set up, remove, and relocate. I have better latency with wireless than I did with wired, if that helps.

Spawn-Inc

07-20-2007, 11:33 PM

it went faster? but didn't you have it go through like 10 routers and hubs?

this won't be in the near future (maybe 6 months i hope to have the pc built in 3 if i can find a job) so fornow i will stick with a wired connection. i just wanted to get some knowledge first.

jdbnsn

07-21-2007, 04:08 AM

I also cast my vote towards Linksys (or Dlink). Used to have a Linksys wireless G and sold it for a Netgear MIMO thinking it was an upgrade, pfft. The Linksys was way more reliable and the support is awesome, avoid Netgear like the plague.

Crazy Buddhist

07-21-2007, 07:05 AM

You will get more lag than wired. For example this reduces my actual download speed from 11Mb/s to around 7Mb/s when measured at thinkbroadband.com

There is no point going for super-fast wireless. This is usefull for moving lots of files around an internal network but your broadband connection will always be the main speed limiting factor for external connections. This is because all wireless networks including 1st gen b provide more bandwidth than most broadband connections.

Theonly reason you might want to go for a superfast wireless 100M+ is if you are soon going to have a 100M+ broadband connection for it to transmit for you.

Crazy Buddhist

07-21-2007, 02:17 PM

also get one not only with an external antenna but one on a cable so you can locate it away from the monitor and pc which detract hugely from wireless efficiency. Either that or an antenna you can detatch so you can buy a high gain external antannae if you need to.

andymushu

07-22-2007, 12:42 AM

As for a pci card, I will recommend this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833127080&Tpk=dlink%2bpci) wireless g card with up to 54mbps transfer rates. It is somewhat slower than some other cards, but at $25 after rebate I think it is worth it. I play a lot of online games like counterstrike, and after upgrading to this card I have noticed zero lag at all. Obviously your setup is going to be different than mine, but my computer is on a different floor through about 3 walls and I consistently get good-excellent signal strength. It also has a removable antenna, just in case you want to upgrade that.

Spawn-Inc

07-22-2007, 12:46 AM

well i don't mind paying a more for a closer match to cable. i want it to be as close as possible as my internet (seems to be) not as fast as i would like.

Crazy Buddhist

07-22-2007, 07:28 AM

http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/74530

Something like that from Cisco is a good bet £100/$200 in the UK but probably around $100 in the US. The more you spend on yr wireless equipment the better it will perform: particularly the PCI card. Or this one from D-Link:

http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/90817 £48 ~ $100 in UK

both feature Antennae on long leads for signal finding.

There is some benefit in going for a router/access point and pci receiver from the same manufacturer but its far from essential. If you get a good brand for both items they will work together perfectly well with the exception of vendor specific/non-standard "improvements". D-Link Cisco 3Com Lynksys all good stuff. Netgear Belkin and a few others sometimes try shoving too much in one box and end up with it all being a bit below par: the rules arent hard though and its worth researching your individual favourites deeply on the net before purchase.

I'm waiting for the all-in-one wireless access point modem router with a four port switch, beer fridge and grill before my next upgrade.

Redundant

07-22-2007, 07:06 PM

well i don't mind paying a more for a closer match to cable. i want it to be as close as possible as my internet (seems to be) not as fast as i would like.

This Linksys G router (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833124190) is the most popular one on NewEgg.

And this Linksys PCI card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833124178) has 3 external antennae on a cable so you should have a good connection through the floor.

Seems to be a great bundle. :up:

Something to remember when dealing with wireless networks is don't forget to add a password! You wouldn't want everyone near you using your bandwidth, would you? Both products I linked to can use WPA2, the strongest wireless protection. :up:

Zephik

07-22-2007, 08:09 PM

This Linksys G router (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833124190) is the most popular one on NewEgg.

And this Linksys PCI card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833124178) has 3 external antennae on a cable so you should have a good connection through the floor.

Seems to be a great bundle. :up:

Something to remember when dealing with wireless networks is don't forget to add a password! You wouldn't want everyone near you using your bandwidth, would you? Both products I linked to can use WPA2, the strongest wireless protection. :up:

That card is overkill for that router. Actually, he wouldn't even be able to use that cards full potential with that router, thus he would be spending much more than he needs to, such in my case in my previous post. But as for the router, I have used the same one before and it works fairly well. My only complaint is that the casing is cheaply made (compared to Netgear rangemax 240 if you need an example, btw, Netgear isn't all that great of a brand).

Thats a pretty sweet card though, I've looked at it multiple times. Good data speeds with SRX and I suspect that it's MIMO capable with its three antennas. Having a movable antenna like that can also be very handy sometimes as well.

I forgot to add, and if nobody else has yet, that your connection strength with the router will determine your internet speed. Using the same router, I've been at one bar (2-24Mbps) and at full bars (54Mbps) the difference was being annoyed to happily browsing the web.

@Omega: What models do you have with your SRX setup? Also, what speeds are you hitting when downloading? I hit 700kbps (that or it was 400kbps, which in any case, I would almost always get on average) using a linksys speedbooster router and adapter combo, what are you getting? How's the range with SRX? Is it the same as plain ole wireless g or is it better compared to rangemax products?

Crazy Buddhist

07-23-2007, 04:42 AM

I forgot to add, and if nobody else has yet, that your connection strength with the router will determine your internet speed. Using the same router, I've been at one bar (2-24Mbps) and at full bars (54Mbps) the difference was being annoyed to happily browsing the web.

This is strictly speaking not true. The wireless kit you use will add lag to the connection. The amount of lag will be less the more you spend - but not because the connection is "faster" - but because more of the maths (eg encoding signals) will be done more efficiently and on the card and not by your processor and because better kit will lose less packets demanding fewer resends.

Security wise:

1/ change the SSID (wireless network name) from the routers standard one.

2/ chose a non-standard combination of letters and numbers for the SSID
- the SSID is used in the encryption algorithyms and dictionary words
can easily be used to disambiguate your encryption and break your
network

3/ Do not broadcast the SSID (you may have to to establish the connection
first time with some adapter cards)

4/ chose a non-standard combination of numbers and letters for your
encryption key - dictionary words are easily cracked.

5/ Resitrict access to the wireless network to specified network adapters
(MAC address) - all routers I have seen have the ability to do this.

6/ Change your SSID and encryption key every month or two.

It is way easy for someone to break your network security and nick your gaming bandwidth if you don't do all the above.

Finally ... to get the most out of any broadband on any connection ... run TCPOptimizer to max the useage of your bandwidth .. this alone sees up to a 50% speed increase for many users.

Crazy Buddhist

07-23-2007, 04:46 AM

oh .. and Snowfire the reason you were "being annoyed" when the wireless connected at 2Mb/s probably wasnt because 2Mb/s was limiting your internet speed - in all likelihood its because at that signal strength your signal and packets will have been getting dropped quicker and more often than the drawers in a Las Vegas brothel.

If you have a 2Mb/s internet connection fed into a 1000 Squillion Terrabit per second wireless network .. guess what ???? ,...... you'll still only have a 2Mb/s internet connection.

Zephik

07-23-2007, 05:58 AM

oh okay. Maybe my brain isn't working up to full speed at the moment, but I'm not entirely sure if I understood what you just said. lol

Not that I'm saying your wrong, I'm not at all. I'm just saying that all I know is when I get closer to the router, my signal increases and so does my browsing and downloading performance (higher download speeds, faster loading pages, faster streaming media) but when I get far enough from the router (like in my room on the other side of the house) the signal drops to a single bar and things slow down (downloading speeds slow down, pages load slower, streaming media takes longer).

I think thats why range boosting components were invented. Because the farther away from a router you get, the more your connectivity with that router will drop and thus decreasing your internet using performance. right?

lol man, I think I am really confused or something. I thought thats how it worked... and then you come in and say that thats not how it works. hrmm... yea, I can feel my brain cells frying as I type. >< enlightenment?

simon275

07-23-2007, 06:31 AM

Your connection speed depends on your internet connection which is only maybe 1.5mbps (Guess)

This the connection from the outside world to your modem which is plugged into your router

While your wireless router will be at 54-108mbps.

The further away you get the more your network will slow down but not your internet.

As network speed i.e. computer to computer slows with increased range but since internet speeds are no where near as fast as home network speeds you will no see any loss as while your network transfer speed may be down to 11mbps your internet speed will still be unchanged at 1.5mbps

What you may be experiencing that is causing your internet connection to appear slower for you is packet loss.

Data is broken up into packets which are then sent through the network and reassembled at the other end. If the computer at the other end is missing some of the packets then it has to tell the other computer to send them again slowing down the process.

Packet loss can be caused by very low signal strength, interference, faulty components.

You can eliminate low signal strength by sitting closer to the router duh!

You can try to eliminate interference by changing the broadcast channel in your routers settings. Or removing sources of interference such as cordless phones transmitting at 2.4ghz, old microwaves, wireless tv transmitters like used to transmit av feeds around the home.

Faulty components can be solved by checking antennas are properly attached and positioned right. Also other hardware can be suplimented for comparison testing.

Crazy Buddhist

07-23-2007, 06:43 AM

oh okay. Maybe my brain isn't working up to full speed at the moment, but I'm not entirely sure if I understood what you just said. lol

"... when I get closer to the router, my signal increases and so does my browsing and downloading performance ... when I get far enough from the router ... the signal drops to a single bar and things slow down (downloading speeds slow down, pages load slower, streaming media takes longer).

...

< enlightenment?

Nah yr brains working fine (sorry? lol). We're saying the same thing almost ...

I said "at that signal strength your signal and packets will have been getting dropped quicker and more often than the drawers in a Las Vegas brothel."

In other words - it almost certainly IS NOT the 2Mb/s connection speed between yr PC and router, per se, that is slowing things down - except when yr broadband connection is faster than 2Mb/s.

The 2Mb/s connection indicates poor signal strength. Poor signal strength will lead to dataloss , dropped packets and the need to constantly re-send packets between yr PC and router and thats why you get such bad performance at range limits, because the work is getting duplicated.

As long as you get a stable signal with good strength providing an internal network bandwidth greater than your Internet connection bandwidth you have done all you can to max your performance.

A lot of people get confused by the little networking icons that say "network connected at 54Mb/s" or "100Mb/s" and think oooh I have a 54Mb/s internet connection ... DOH .. no you don't ... you have a 100Mb/s internal network connection to your router. If your router is using dial up yr always gonna be screwed no matter how fast you communicate with it.