1st post... need help Computer won't power on.

[bflanigin]

ok well ill start by giving background. I am a college student with a wealth of knowledge about cars, and have worked several jobs in trhat industry. I recently purchased a computer that a good freind of mine built. I dont know alot about computers so i know spec of the system and not brands etc. Well the computer has functioned great but the wiring inside was a little ho hum. So i got a sleeving kit to sleeve a few of the wires. Well i only got a couple done when i decided it was time to do some gaming for the night, so i plugged everything back ain turned it on and.... nothing. Now i know the immediate instinct for everyone (including me) was i forgot to plug somthing in. I double check and everything was correct i even marked in several places and only pulled one wire at a time. Now heres the kicker. While im poking around i left the power supply on and suddenly the green LED on the mother board pop on for a second then off again. I wiggled mt hand around in the area i just touched. (the 20 pin connector into mother board) and the light came on and stayed on. Hit the button and the beast fired up. Ok so i slapped the panels on set it on the floor.... then nothing. Put it back on the table wiggled wires to no avail.


Long story short i beleive this is a lose wire. Anyone have any ideas? Also, if its not the 20 pin connector, there is a wire going from the power supply that is white and black braided and connects to a 3 pin connector on the motherboard about 2 inches above where the 20 pin connector is. What does this wire do?

Well there it is i hope Someone can help. Thanks everyone.
(hlep the noob....)

[Cymae]

sounds like a connector or pin you might have wiggled kinda loose or off when you started taking everything apart..

So it doesn't turn on at ALL? like..none of it? does a fan work plugged into the PSU? or is absolutely nothing working?

Oh and welcome to the forums <3

[bflanigin]

thanks for the welcome. Againim not really down with the lingo so forgive me. PSU.... power supply unit? If so all i know is that there are a bunch of wires comming out it. a couple of them must me made for fans and accesories because the only things on them are the molex 4pins. I think your asking that if i plug the fans directly into one of these do they turn on? if so then no. However they never did the fans only came on when i hit the on switch on the front. So the rocker in the back could be on and the fans would urn on when i turn the computer on.

Maybe your asking if i have tried to hardwire a fan to the psu to make sure it (the psu0) is working. in which case no i have not opened the PSU for any reason... it scares me. Similer im sure to one of you guys opening up a motor. Its a simple beast but its scary the first time.

should i try this. I suppose i could also take a volt meter to some connectors to make sure its working. However it did work. It turned on and i had to turn it off manually. so are PSU's intermittent llike that?

[Cymae]

Nononono...do NOT open the PSU. Sorry for the lingo, yes PSU = Power Supply. I'm just thinking what you could possibly do to test that the Power supply is functional and it's not the motherboard..because it would suck if it was the motherboard..try a voltage meter on the molexes..I'm not ENTIRELY sure if this will work but it's worth a shot. Know anyone who can let you borrow a spare power supply? That might be an idea too, to try a different power supply and see if it works. It could be a range of things wrong with it.. It's a bit hard to tell without getting to poke around in it....But see if you can test that the power supply works somehow. But again, do NOT under ANY circumstances open it. This can lead to...unfavourable events.

[calumc]

from what your saying it sounds like one of the pins on the 20 pin connector is loose. On the pins there are little springy barbs that hold then inside the connector, id say youve pushed in some of these when removing them. so the best solution might be to take out all the pins again and make sure all the barbs are out enough to hold the pin in place.

[bflanigin]

A agree that it does sound like a loose wire, however i did not remove the pins from the 20 pin connector. but i will try to wiggle the indeviduale wires on the 20 pin connector to see if it is a loose connection at one of those. thanks for the help everyone.

Any other thoughts? I am at work now but i was hoping to get a whole list of things to check when i get home then i can report back the results.

[Cymae]

again..it's really hard without seeing it..I get my best brainwaves when i fiddle with things...

[bflanigin]

lol i'd invite you over but i could buy it again for what it would cost to bring you here (USA)!.... is there something that shows me when the poer is on what pins on that 20 pin connector should have power? i assume all of them because it goes straight to the PSU but just wondering. Also does anyone know what the other wire i mentioned is?

[calumc]

when the power should be on the fan inside the psu should be spinning

[Cymae]

when the power should be on the fan inside the psu should be spinning

That's only true if the PC is turned on. He said nothing turned on...so I can only assume that theres either a problem with the connection to turn the pc on or theres a problem with the power supply

[SgtM]

I know this sounds stupid, but I've done this many times, so I'll throw it out there..

Unplug the power cord from the back of the PSU. Then, make sure it's plugged back in securely. Also, most PSU's have a switch on the back. Make sure it's in the correct position.

[bflanigin]

OK yes i have unplugged and plugged many times. Also When i turn on the rocker switch for the PSU i dont think the PSU fans turn on. those are quite ones but im pretty sure they dont. Also while i have tried the computer on off button a few times. The main thing i have been looking for was the green LED light on the motherboard. That was th first thing that turned on when i wiggled it the first time so i am using that as my indecator. Granted i have also tried the button as anyone tries anything when they are this frustrated.


So what the majority of the people are thinking is that, it is either the PSU, the motherboard itself, or a connection between the two. Is this correct? (personally i am in tha last group but i dont know much....)

[Crazy Buddhist]

So what the majority of the people are thinking is that, it is either the PSU, the motherboard itself, or a connection between the two. Is this correct? (personally i am in tha last group but i dont know much....)

I suspect its the wires going into the motherboard connector. You already said you are going to check they are good.

The PSU doesn't come on nor does its fan until the computer comes on.

But ... if you keep wiggling wires to test it while the whole system has power and the PSU is switched on you might soon blow something.

So check that motherboard power connector really well that no wires are lose and replug everything then LAST THING plug in the power cord and turn on the PSU then either hit the start button or see if you have yr little green light ... but don't keep trying things with the power on or your gonna do more damage.

CrazyB

[bflanigin]

ok good thinking i will definatly do that. now i understand if it is the PSU, you replace it... does that wire coming off the PSU going to the motherboard, do i replace just that 20 pin wire? or would i have to still buy a new PSU. Also if it is the connector on the motherboard can i (or someone) solder a new one on? or do i replace the whole board?

thanks for all your help.

[Cymae]

can you *borrow* a new psu to test the theory? It saves you buying a new one for the purposes of testing. I STRONGLY reccomend that you do not do any electrical work on the psu, you could possibly destroy everything in the process.

So..

Step 1: Borrow a PSU
Step 2: Try the new PSU
Step 3a: If it works, buy a new PSU. keep the old one for fiddling
Step 3b: If it doesn't work, your motherboard's kinda fubard...Don't know what I can suggest there other than get a new one.

THE MOST IMPORTANT MORAL OF THE STORY:
do NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT rewire or open your PSU.

[Bucko]

Can you post a picture of your motherboard so we can see this wire you are talking about?

[alexanderH]

The easiest way to test a power supply is working is by shorting it's start mechanism. This is what is done by a power button normally. But if anything between the power button and the power supply is faulty you will have problems doing this. Check out: http://aphnetworks.com/tutorials/psu_paperclip_trick
As this can be done with a piece of wire or a paper clip, you will very quickly be able to verify that the power supply is working. However! Turn the switch on the supply OFF before you attempt to do this, or you may find yourself shocked at the result... Turn it on once your wire or paper clip is in. If the power supply runs, we can figure out just where exactly your problem is.

Hope this helps!

if you want to do less linking this theory will help:

There is going to be a time when you need to run the power supply without the motherboard.
Example: when you want to test to see if the power supply is bad, or just testing fans and other gadgets.
Most circuits provide about a watt or less. And then there is the main power such as +12v, -12v, +5v, -5v, +3.3v and ground,zero v. You can mix and match combinations to achieve Voltages of: 1.7, 3.3, 5, 7, 8.7, 8.8, 12, 15.3, 17, and even 24 volts. And only the +12v and +5v Provide meaningful current.
You can fire up the ATX power supply by shorting the Green wire with any Black Ground, Remembering an ATX Pwrs. will not fire up normally without a mother board.This is why it is necessary to jumper it off.from: http://forums.thatcomputerguy.us/index.php?showtopic=1120

[Cymae]

thats what I love about my mother board..it's got a power button on the board that lights up as long as it's plugged in. Instant success.

[bflanigin]

thats what I love about my mother board..it's got a power button on the board that lights up as long as it's plugged in. Instant success.

lol ok then remind me to get that one when i find out mine is messed up. Ok so my understnanding is i need to try a new power supply because the cables and the PSU are all one peice. Ok i can do that... i think. I have to see if i know someone who has an extra PSU. Alexander, im not sure if the connection between the button and the PSU is good but i will still try your theory. ummm i can try to post a pic of my mobo this weekend however my normal camera is my palm an its made to sync up with.... ding ding ding my computer. when i borrow a power supply do i just hook everything up or just connect it to the mobo and check for lights?

oh question.... PSU diagnosis, so i am going to get a paper clip and run it from the green wire (Where? on th 20 pin?) then to any ground (black) wire. (then what am i looking for? does this trick the psu into starting, fans et al?)

things to do.
attempt to do the aformentioned test.
Borrow power supply and test. (if possible)
report back. If new power supply makes everything function buy power supply. If after installing new power supply still nothing assume new mobo (in which case i will still need alot of help from everyone because i still know nothing.)

how much is a new PSU? oh and if i buy a new mobo can i still use my old processor to save some money? or is that package deal? it has the duo processor currently so i dont want to pay for that.

thanks for all the help hopefully after a couple more replies to my questions and a hour os so this weekend ill figure out... at least somthing

Edit to add: everyone i really appreciate your help because i am so lost... if anyone needs car help let me know! While i will try to stick around on these forums for a while, i wont be any help :(

[bflanigin]

http://www.asipartner.com/ocadmin/images/53564.jpg

this mothrboard looks exactly like mine... i just did a search for asus mother boards but this one is almost exactly mine... it might be actually. Anyway if you look at the bottum of the pic there is the 24 pin connection. (my psu only supplies 20 but i just dont use the ladt 4 on the left.) anyway, the wire i was wondering about (probably means nothing) has a white and black wire wound together. if you look at the picture,on the bottom about 2 inches to the dead right of the 24 pin connector there is another white connector and this is the wire i was wondering about. this it the only wire that i sleeved that wasn't a simply molex one going to fan or lights. anyway just curious. Thanks for everyones help. As soon as i get my answers to my pervious post ill try stuff when i get home and then i will report back. Thanks again for everyones help.

[alexanderH]

Ok I'll try and explain the paper clip theory a bit better for you. Sorry if it was confusing, it makes sense to me but I work with this stuff every day.

On the 24 pin connector you want to connect the green wire to any black wire on the same connector. So on the 24 pin connector I think there are 12 black wires. I don't know off the top of my head, but any black wire on this connector will do. Then you want to turn the power supply on using the switch on the back side of it where you plug the wire in. If done correctly and your power supply is ok what you will hear is the power supply fan, and you should feel air being blown out by the fan. if you are not sure if it is working at this point if you have any case fans I recommend plugging them into the power supply as you normally would. Another option however as a car guy I'm sure you still have a volt meter. So Check to see the continuity on the paper clip. or from the green to a black wire. It will save you having to jam a paper clip in there. If you get a good voltage reading on it, then your power supply should be good to go.

If it is not the power supply let us know and we will be able to help you out from there.

As for power supply costs, they range from cheap for crap to realtively expensive for over powered pieces. From what I understand about your machine, there is nothing too extensive on it and you should be able to get away with spending about $60-$80 for a new unit if required.

-Alexander

[alexanderH]

http://www.asipartner.com/ocadmin/images/53564.jpg

this mothrboard looks exactly like mine... i just did a search for asus mother boards but this one is almost exactly mine... it might be actually. Anyway if you look at the bottum of the pic there is the 24 pin connection. (my psu only supplies 20 but i just dont use the ladt 4 on the left.) anyway, the wire i was wondering about (probably means nothing) has a white and black wire wound together. if you look at the picture,on the bottom about 2 inches to the dead right of the 24 pin connector there is another white connector and this is the wire i was wondering about. this it the only wire that i sleeved that wasn't a simply molex one going to fan or lights. anyway just curious. Thanks for everyones help. As soon as i get my answers to my pervious post ill try stuff when i get home and then i will report back. Thanks again for everyones help.

From experience that connector should not prevent the computer from operating at all. However, and I must emphasize this. If that is the connector for your processor fan, and your processor fan is not plugged in, your computer will shut down very quickly after you try to boot or it may not boot at all. If you could give me the link for that motherboard I will be able to identify the plug a little bit bette and give you more acurate info though.

[bflanigin]

ok thanks i can't wait to get home tonight and figure this out.


hmmm.... more background, shortly after i got the computer the large 120mm fan wouldn't turn on the computer would overheat and shut off. It had a power wire going to the fan and a connector going to mobo. When i got a new fan, (the one that is supposed to move a ton of air with red blades, 97cfm) it only had a 4 pinmolex type connector. so i didn't care it was going to be on high all the time, i have a good sound system ill be alright. Now that connector that was going from the mobo to the fan is not being used at all but this is not the connector i was refering to. Are we on the same page? or did i misunderstand? thanks either way :)

(PS ever since i disconnected the big ffan and put a new one in the mobo doesn't read it and it give me a CPU fan error message when the bios starts up and i just hit continue because i check all fans everytime i start up. ill probably ask someone after i get this resolved how to change the bios to ignore that fan connection. )

EDIT to add i see you wrote processor fan is that the smalll fan mounted on the heatsink itself? if so then no its not this connection either because the fan on the heatsink work great. we can ignore this for now and ill do the power supply check and repost the result. ill try to take pictures

[alexanderH]

Well, you seem to understand everything pretty well for someone who struggles with this kind of stuff :P.
I am glad that your fan on the processor heatsink is working well. That is a key factor. Over heating issues could be overheating the processor/motherboard or the power supply. A cheap supply would be very likely to fail under severe heat. So this may solidify that it is infact a power supply issue.

However the CPU fan error, is going to cause you troubles. Because that means that the system thinks there is nothing to cool the cpu and as such it would likely cause a system failure. This means that the computer may not start at all, and if it does start it would most likely fail very very quickly. But we will try to confirm these things after you do a bit more diagnostic on your machine.


Take Care,
Alexander

[tofunater529]

I hate to be the pessimist here, but if you wiggled the wires while there was still power in the system and it then n longer worked, you may have caused a short and burned out anything and everything, but most likely you burned out your motherboard, however do test your ower supply just in case, because it may have been the component that started this whole mess.

Poor analogy... You don't when to refit the headers on the engine block while the car is running.

[bflanigin]

thats true and if i test the power supply and its good, again big if because i dont know yet. How do i test the mother board? or at that point do i say the power supply works so it must be the motherboard?

again ill do the power supply test this weekend and report back on sunday or monday

[alexanderH]

Well the funny thing with a motherboard or a cpu is that they are very difficult to immediately prove one is defective or broken. What you do to decide that, is isolate all the components you can that relate to the problem at hand.

You work with cars, so think of it as a car. The car starts, one minute, and you turn it off and go back out to start it and it won't.
It could be the starter, it could be a dead battery, you may not be getting gas into the engine, among other things.

While it would probably fix the problem to replace the whole engine, it would be unnecessary and in fact may not end up solving the problem anyways.

So you isolate components to see where the problem lays. This is what I am trying to do with you. If any of that made some sense, which I hope it did. Obviously it would be a little easier to be there and run through a standard diagnosis, but we do the best we can from such distances :)

[bflanigin]

ok well bad news.....

i grabbed a paper clip and un bent it. i unplugged the PSU and vaerified that the switch was in te off position. (i told my girlfrind i would live because she just erad an article in a paper about a kid who fried himself in the PSU last week....) i put one end of the paperclip into the Green connection port. Has third party check it was in Green. I then put the other end into a black port. Had third party double check. after another check i plugged in and turned on. ALL LIGHTS AND FANS CAME ON IMMEDIATLY. This to me is a clear statement of mobo failure. However i would be more than happy to explore any other posibiliies. The last thing i would like to do before i purchase a new mobo is double check there is not another mobo problem. I will take my voltmeter to each pin and erify coreect voltage, using this picture.

http://www.duxcw.com/faq/ps/psconnshort.gif

Anyone else have any Ideas before i bite the bullet and buy a mobo?

I will start another thread on which mobo do i have and which should i buy. (if i should upgrade)

how difficult is it to transfer my CPU from old mobo to new one? Is this best handeld by pro? if so..... who?

[Crazy Buddhist]

Anyone else have any Ideas before i bite the bullet and buy a mobo?

Yes .. read AlexanderH's post up there again ^^^ it may well not be your motherboard. It might be your CPU you have fried or even your memory.

With these things there is a need to rule out one by one each link in the chain to find the problem.

One way to do that is to keep buying new bits until it works. .... but as Alexander implied, buying a new engine isn't the cheapest way of replacing a fan belt or charging a flat battery.

At least we know your PSU is good :up: progress :D

CrazyB

[bflanigin]

ok... so it could be the CPU or the motherboard.... whats the next test to find out? Whats the next step in diagnosis?

[.Maleficus.]

ok... so it could be the CPU or the motherboard.... whats the next test to find out? Whats the next step in diagnosis?
Borrow a motherboard, CPU or RAM and try those.

This entire time you've been trying to turn the PC on with a power switch, right? Maybe the switch or wire is broken? (Sorry I read about 3 words from each post to update myself). You could try shorting the motherboard to turn the PC on (though it probably isn't the switch).

[Crazy Buddhist]

Borrow a motherboard, CPU or RAM and try those.

This entire time you've been trying to turn the PC on with a power switch, right? Maybe the switch or wire is broken? (Sorry I read about 3 words from each post to update myself). You could try shorting the motherboard to turn the PC on (though it probably isn't the switch).

Spot on with the remedy. Mind you I always test the power switch in these circumstances. Though I believe he said at one point there was a little light on the Mobo when powered but not running ... sooo ... if that light isnt there ... it can't be down to the switch.

AH Have you plugged the little four plug power plug into the motherboard? If you not you aren't powering your CPU ?????

CrazyB

[bflanigin]

.... i dont really have any friends into modding, and dont have a ton of resources laying around. is this thw only way to check it?

[alexanderH]

Sorry for the long wait in reply. I have been away for a while, and since I've been back my machines have been completely disassembled. In order to mod on a budget you have to use current parts. It gets annoying, and there are chances to break things, but we do what we must!

Anyways back to the issue at hand...
As others have pointed out, that without such handy resources as extra power supplies, processors, and motherboards, you can still trouble shoot and repair computers. It does become a bit more slow and painful but you can in the end get there. There has been some time since I have faced an issue like the one you present. And knowing that it is not the power supply makes things much easier.
However if you can get pictures of your current configuration and and and all trouble-shooting work that you do, and post them up here things may move at a quicker pace. Moving on...

We are sure that the power supply is fine. Check.
Mother board?
Cpu?
Memory?

My first thoughts are to unplug all of your power cables to your computer. Plug the ones for the motherboard and cpu fan. Nothing else, no cd drives and no hard drives. These are unnecessary for what I want to diagnose next.
With only your motherboard plugged in I want you to try and boot the machine.
There are several outcomes you may encounter so please look at them all before you give-up.
Possibilities:
1) Your computer Does Not start, as per the original issue. - While one might assume that the motherboard or something on it is indeed biffed, this is not always the case. I will explain further in a moment.
2)Your computer powers on, (atleast the motherboard and CPU along with its fan. The fan is a great visual indicator at this point). If everything so far is fine, your computer should boot to a dos prompt or take you into bios (system setup).
3)Your computer powers on, but you do not get a dos prompt, a bios screen or anything beneficial on the screen.
4)Your computer powers on, and while nothing beneficial is on the screen you can hear beeps coming from the tower. They will be loud and annoying if your speaker is plugged in correctly, so you will not need to "look" for these beeps.

Recommendations:
1)Put on some good music, relax, and have a drink. You are going to have to go into some great detail to explain what you did, or didn't do. Unless you have pictures to do it for you. This is a key part of repairing your PC from the web :)
2)Great news! We can power down the system and plug in your hard drives and CD drives one at a time to see if anything is wrong with them. If not, you will be replying to this post from the computer that this post is dealing with.
3)Never fear! There is hope for such a situation. If you do not hear beeps as in case 4 you may have your speaker incorrectly hooked up, or it may not be working. This sucks a bunch of ass, because frankly it is very hard to verify that it is working if the system is not responding correctly to begin with. BUT your system could be a few steps from working again. See the next part.
4)Ok, so you eagerly turn off the computer knowing that something is happening, but that annoying beeping is well, annoying. There are a series of indicative beeps programmed into a motherboard. If there is a consistent tone and tempo to the beeps, like one every second or half/second, at the same tone this would indicate a problem with your memory.
A sound recorded would be GREAT right here, for us trying to assist.
There are other tones to indicate possible problems with video, processor, processor fans, and other random gadgets.
So PLEASE PLEASE explain as best you can the result from this step.

One thing I just remembered... How long have you had the computer and do you know how long it was used before you got it?(If it was used at all). You might wonder why? Well there are clock batteries in computers. And these tiny and very easy to forget batteries may seem unimportant and frankly useless, they can cause even the greatest system to fail all of a sudden. They are very easy to find on your motherboard (middle of the board on the vertical, and off the left side about an inch in - it is the round disk). If after everything up to this post has not worked. To kill some waiting time, I might suggest plugging everything in, and replacing this battery if you have sufficient resources, or can find it at your local stores. While it's not very expensive it could very well be an unnecessary expense.

Sorry for the long, and probably repetitive response. I was never very good as a writer:p
If you have any questions, PM or reply. I will tend to them just as soon as I can.
And to everyone else, if there are errors in my posts, please let me know so I can revise and edit them. I wouldn't want to give out any bad information.

[Crazy Buddhist]

Also we still do not know exactly what motherboard you have .. there will be codes and serial numbers printed on the top or sometimes the bottom .. with those codes we can get the exact Mobo information which will help. And manufacturers often make several quite different models that look, superficially, the same, so try and get those codes off the board.

CrazyB

[bflanigin]

sorry for the long wait im becoming an RA this year and training is killer.... also not having a computer... the motherboard i have is the exact one i posted a picture of. I will try to explain everything i did. then i will go check the test above.
First i took off the side panel and began to sleeve little things like wires for lights and fan ect. Then i unplugged all of the power cables and re routed to go around the chasis where the drives are and re connected everything. Unplugged HD then gave up on sleeveing that wire (wouldn't fit over head) then i plugged it back in (possibly wrong plug?) Then i turned on the psu and hit the power switch and nothing. I fiddledicked with the 20 pin connector and the light on the mobo flashed on the off again. I fiddledicked some more the laight came on then i turned on the computer. Ran fine for a few seconds then i shut it off before windows could start using the switch in the front. placed the computer back on the floor and nothing again ever.

now im gonna try only plugging in the mobo, and the fan mounted on the hewat sink of the cpu and report results. Thanks everyone for all of your help so far.

[Dilphat]

I was gonna say that...you must have placed the reset sw and power sw around. but you said you were able to turn it on. But I'm clueless without not having it in my hands.

[alexanderH]

I'm going to say that the problem lies in your connections. I highly doubt at this point that any hardware has failed you, that is unless you "fiddledicked" around with things while the machine was on.
But failing that, I do believe you may have contact issues on your mobo/power supply. I would recommend checking wires for nicks/shorts. As you have tested the power supply for working voltage (Think back to paper clip testing) That line of voltage should supply the motherboard LED. I assume you have tried messing with that connection and had no luck. If such is the case and you need/want your computer back in a timely fashion take it to your local computer store. While it may just be a missed plug-in, the diagnostic fee will be a lot less than replacing parts. And considering you are not so familiar with computers yourself it might be your safest bet.
BUT as you said you are becoming RA, why not check around the residence and see if anyone knows computers? I must assume that there are computer students, or students who know what they are looking at.

[faintingcow]

I've had some pretty weird motherboards, you should try to get the motherboard to power on with just keyboard/mouse plugged in. I've had a motherboard before that wouldn't power on sometimes if the speakers were plugged in.

[Greco101]

...

[alexanderH]

I've had some pretty weird motherboards, you should try to get the motherboard to power on with just keyboard/mouse plugged in. I've had a motherboard before that wouldn't power on sometimes if the speakers were plugged in.

First off, welcome to the forums. I appreciate your input on the matter, however I would like to inform you that we are on a pretty good track of what the problem is and where it lies. I don't want this to throw anyone for a loop, but the main issue pointed out in this thread so far is that one day the computer worked great, all of a sudden the mobo showed little to no sign of life.

This would indicate that it is not a problem such as you described unless someone were playing around with that port, aka modding/soldering/putting the wrong plug into it.

[bflanigin]

see new thread... progress!! kinda....