creative troubles

i cant believe i of all people am at a lack of ideas here. i have to turn to you guys for ideas on this.

ok, first a little speel to get everyone up to date. remember that zanzibar mod? i had a severe falling out with a friend who was an absolute halo freak. it pretty much put me off halo completely. in fact, i havent touched a computer game for about a month now. ive managed to keep busy with school, the gym, and random discussion/arguments here on the forums. im not into that zanzibar mod anymore, i stare at the frame for literally hours, just hating it.

im switching gears for this. im going to do something very techy and purpose built. i know the types of things i want in it... air cleaner, dehumidifier (ive got some magnesium silicate desicant pellets for it), watercooling... ive pretty much got all the individual components thought out. id also like to do some acrylic work like in tribal's liquid evolution threads.... well, same effect, but not the same style. heres where i need the help though. i want to theme this case if possible, but i really dont know of a movie or game, or anything that is both techy and purpose built. i cant find anything that just stands out and says "im a kickass idea". i was thinking the tv series firefly, or the movie serenity might be a good way to go, but im just not sure right now.

does anybody have anything awesome? im completely open to suggestions right now, so just start flooding me with ideas if you have them.

nothing yet? having as much trouble as i am?

i did think of another idea. perhaps the necro monger type technology in chronicles of riddick.

still, nothing is really jumping out at me though. im listening here...... still listening. anyone with a good idea better post before i go and tear all my hair out and start on expendable appendages.

How about optical illusions? I've seen some cases with mirrors so that it looks like an empty box. You could build a case that is a total trip to look at. People will look at pic and it will look one way, you show another angle and they don't know what they are looking at.

This one is pretty cool. I'm not suggesting that you use this, but it is cool.
Look at it close to your screen and then slowly walk away and see how the two images change.

I'll tell you what, if you have played any of the games in the Myst Series (I.e. myst, riven, etc...) you will find volumes of structures that you surely will find some inspiration from. Lots of things that are immediately purposeful, beautiful, complex, and creative. You might check those out for some ideas.
Good luck!
Jon

Hmmm... well, I had a similar problem. So I just wrote my own back story :p.

Lets see, techy...hmmm. Matrix comes to mind. You could even extrapolate on the machines and do something you think would be in their city.

Or...Star Wars. Like the design of the hallways, I think they had white lights that went from ground to ceiling.
Are you a Star trek fan? They had alot of places for inspiration.

Wait I got it. How about Men in Black. Most of their stuff was very techy and could be given many lighting effects. It really up to you. Thats about all I can think of right now though.

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You could even extrapolate on the machines

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thats probably what ill end up doing, although i need a place to start from first. not a huge star trek fan unfortunately... although if i see something i like, it doesnt really matter where it came from. i was also thinking about the matrix and MIB. they're all valid right now, BUT....

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the Myst Series (I.e. myst, riven, etc...)

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... ill have to take a look at this first. i remember seeing ads for uru.... i think thats one of the series, and i remember thinking it looked interesting. never even seen the game though. ill look at some screenshots if i can find them.

those optical illusions are interesting too. im thinking of perhaps using some nifty angled acrylic pieces to refract and reflect light so maybe i can give the illusion of duplicated or hidden pieces. ive got to look into it though. depends on what the refraction coefficient for acrylic is. if it carries light along the edges, im sure you can do some neat effects.

alright, ive kind of settled on the fact that i nothing is going to inspire me to theme this case. ill just go ahead with some sort of abstract tech design.

speaking of abstract tech designs, im drawing one up right now. i just downloaded sketch up too, so ill try to transfer the drawing on to the computer and post some shots. then ill open up to design suggestions if there are any.

ill need a little while to do this because ive never used sketch up before.

little update.... I LOVE SKETCH UP!!!!

this is working very very very very very well, and i can finally show my ideas without settling for crappy scans of drawings.

the case is looking like an angular giant, more akin to a delorean, but its not done yet. fingers crossed for tomorrow night or something, its taking a long time to measure everything and get it right. i just have one side, and a water cooling schematic left, but they kind of tie into each other so its like a water-wall.

ive got to take some time out now to do two projects.... bloody school!!!! census project tonight, powerpoint tomorrow. then.... if i have time, computer.

worth the wait though... i love what ive got done so far, and i think some of you will too.

So...I just had a bad weekend (bad = hungover) and raided my DVD rack for something I hadn't seen in *ages*. What did I come across? Why am I posting here?

HACKERS! That horrible movie with Anjie Jolie and no one else of consequence. :) Anyway, it'd be great to (I was thinking of it for a future mod) do a homage to "Crash & Burn".

Okay...rather horrible idea now that I reread it...but...I'm clicking post anyway!

That picture is sweet.

Johnny Lee Miller is a decent actor and he's in Hackers.

Can't wait to see the sketches slug.

hey, you guys are in luck, im done!!! and if i do say so myself, i have thought up one slick looking case. ill get right to it.

so first, the colours. anything that is blue will be tinted blue acrylic with some super bright whites behind it, or if i cant find any blue acrylic, it will be clear acrylic with blue lighting. anything that is grey will be aluminum. the materials are subject to change though. if i can get my hands on some copper, ill throw that in too, and ill probably throw some styrene in there too. ill figure the materials out as i go....

and the numbers:

1. case air exhaust shroud

2. power button

3. water cooling air intake

4. air entry to water-wall (that whole side is going to house a large radiator)

5. a modded top loading optical drive of some sort (as luck would have it, i think my dvd rom just packed it in, so i can practice modding it first)

6. water cooling hot water input

7. water cooling cold water output

8. case air intake (the left hand wall) and air transfer (the air goes into that large circle thing, down, and then up out of the floor of the case)

9. a 5.25" bay, a floppy bay, and peripherals

10. water cooling air exhaust port

11. the watercooling intake housing (rear view)

so if you can gather from these pictures, its definitely going to be clean and organized. ive got case air and water cooling air separated, and (logically) routed to minimize turbulence (hopefully).

the case air goes in the left hand wall, down to the bottom, then out a set of vents, up though the case, and out the rear of the top. it will be pushed by the largest fans i can fit in there (modded fans of course, i dont want too much noise, and i dont want the square housing they come in). theres going to be a large network of air filters and chemical dessicants in the left hand wall, and that is why im using such a large area just for the intake. it will reduce resistance.

as for the water cooling air supply, it goes in the front vents, into the right hand wall, does its stuff in the wall, and then out the back of that right hand wall. and again, it will be pushed by big modded fans. there will be air filters for the air intake here too, but no dessicants, because moisture wont matter to me if its in the radiator area. if anything, a little condensation (if any) will evapourate and help cool.

now, you may be looking at numbers 6 and 7 (the input and output to the radiator) and wondering why there are six holes in the top one and only one hole on the bottom. the answer is a stroke of genius in my opinion. this is going to be a 6-loop cooling system. there will be a dedicated loop for the CPU, one for the GPU, one for the RAM, one for the chipset, one for the other internals (hard drives and anything else i add), and one lone redundant cooling loop that cycles directly through the radiator again to further cool (i could also use this as a spare if i ever add another piece of hardware that needs good cooling). so each device sends its hot water to the radiator, and once the water has cooled, it comes out in one lone tube at the bottom, heading for the pump. this brings up another question... how am i going to pump all this water?

the pump answer is another stroke of genius. there will be one large motor that powers an acrylic version of a straight-six motor. there will be one cylinder for each loop, and that will allow for a dependable flow and pressure for each loop. yes, this means the water will travel in pulses, but i may make it a two-way design where as water is pushed out one end, it also enters the other end... we'll see, it may be hard to do. if i cant make a two way pump, ill just make the cylinders large.

at this point, i havent been able to make up a 3D design of the water pump, or a schematic for how ill run the cooling pipes. ill be working on that over the next week. i cant spend a lot of time on it right now because not only do i have these damn projects, i have two midterms this week, and one next week.

so anyways.... comments? questions? suggestions? criticism? anything? i realize this is very ambitious... but i need to make up for my zanzibar failure... thats my only defense for that.

right, heres my plan for the pump that i was talking about.

so, the numbers thing again:

1. the cylinder block, one cylinder per loop in the cooling system

2. the manifold so to speak, where the water will go in and out

3. the reservoir

4. outputs on the manifold, water goes out through them

5. inputs on manifold, water goes in

6. outputs on reservoir, water goes out them, and to the inputs on the manifold

7. main input to the reservoir, straight from radiator


i didnt really feel like drawing up the actual pistons or crankshaft that will go along with this thing... you can get the idea if you know what the internals of an engine look like.

so i think what ill do is have a one way valve on each input.output on hte manifold so the water doesnt get all backed up. simple enough if i can find some... if i cant ill have to make some out of something flexible. i bet i can find some though.

a big question for this is how am i going to get this thing water tight. honestly, i dont know right now. im running through a lot of ideas for it. one thing i could do is put a silicone ring around the pistons, so if forms a mushy and flexible seal inside the cylinder, and that may be the simplest. there are a couple others, but im not going to get into them. im very tired right now... did a presentation in school today, and i pwned the pants off a bio midterm, and no sleep last night.

im going to leave it at this for now. maybe if anyone has an idea to get the pump water tight without too much fancy footwork... that would help a lot. ill wait a while to see if anyone says anything, and maybe ill revise some of the designs over the weekend... i want to make sure everything jives before i start. so if you dont have anything to say... pay attention anyways, i may have a new case/pump design in the future. ill at least add some more detail.

nice i had this idea a few years a go, you dont need nothing for sealing it, you just have to run oil through the sistem, dont get me wrong, i mean through the crankshaft, the pistons will seal them selfs, you know, the oil gets between the cilinder rings, for sealing the manifold you should use a simple manifold sealing thingy. But there is one problem, how the f#&% are you gonna crank it up, you gonna need a big thing.
BTW: what engine will you use

oh, haha, i wont use a real engine, im going to make one out of acrylic, so the cylinders will probably be about 2 inches in diameter. ill just power it off a 12 volt motor... i can probably find one somewhere.

hopefully the oil might work the same way no matter what material. i like that idea, i was just pondering it before you mentioned it. it would allow a design change to simplify even further, and make a sort of hybrid 2 stroke based design with the valves in the piston itself.

but it may change things now that you know its not a real engine.

im going to keep thinking about it. im not done for the night yet. im just trying to idle a bit.

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Originally Posted by Slug Toy

and make a sort of hybrid 2 stroke based design with the valves in the piston itself.

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what do you mean valves in the piston :? make a sketch
glad you like my oily idea :D

this is what im thinking about, i only did one cylinder because all six will be identical.

numbers again:

1. the top of the cylinder, with the output

2. this is pointing to the piston

3. these are the valves in the piston

4. this is a "conrod" that probably wont be hinged in the normal way, i think i have an idea to help minimize leaking

5. the input hole


so what happens in this design is the water/oil will go in through the input at the bottom. when the piston comes down, the water goes up through the two valves, and into the other side of the cylinder. when the piston goes up, the two valves close, and the water is forced up and out the output.

this particular design can be easily modified to be a one stroke as well. you just need an input and output on each side of the piston, and presto.

honestly, im still not completely impressed with what i have so far. i still get the feeling that leaks will happen. more thinking to do... going good so far though.

looking forward to see how you wil actually do it in the end ;)
I like the idea of this pump...
only thing I'm concerned about is (like you said) the 'flow' won't be constant...
nevertheless, great idea! keep it up

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Originally Posted by Slug Toy

this is what im thinking about, i only did one cylinder because all six will be identical.

numbers again:

1. the top of the cylinder, with the output

2. this is pointing to the piston

3. these are the valves in the piston

4. this is a "conrod" that probably wont be hinged in the normal way, i think i have an idea to help minimize leaking

5. the input hole


so what happens in this design is the water/oil will go in through the input at the bottom. when the piston comes down, the water goes up through the two valves, and into the other side of the cylinder. when the piston goes up, the two valves close, and the water is forced up and out the output.

this particular design can be easily modified to be a one stroke as well. you just need an input and output on each side of the piston, and presto.

honestly, im still not completely impressed with what i have so far. i still get the feeling that leaks will happen. more thinking to do... going good so far though.

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well now i get it but i dont agree, you see, in that configuration you will use (corect me if i'm wrong) 4 valves, 2 on the piston and 2 on the body (block)
the most easy way in my mind is to use 2 one way valves on the manifold(you do know how it worcks), this way you dont need to dril the cilinder, less holes less problems, and i think that you should try to reproduce a car engine, you take a plex tube on one end glue a round bit of plex, dril the plex tube from side to side to make room for youre push rod bolt, make the bolt(plex), make the push rod(plex), for the crank shaft... well it 12 AM in here so.... you get my point :p
ooooww and there is no problem with the flow as long as you got more then one cilinder, 2 for example will work great, one is sucking the other is pushing
if you need something just say so, you just hapened to get in my line of knowledge :D

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well now i get it but i dont agree

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you know what, you're right. that two stroke idea doesnt make any damn sense. looking at it now... its a more primitive design, but it doesnt mean its any easier to make. screw that crap.

so im back to my first pump idea. i dont like how bulky it looks though. im going to refine it over the weekend, see if i can meld things together to cut the size down. i mean, keeping to the scale in the model, if i want any sort of acceptable flow rate, that pump is going to be at least a foot long, half a foot high, and 3 inches wide. i dont know if i can spare that space. ive already got ideas though. im finally getting my creativity back. just one midterm left, and hell week is over... two projects and two exams done this week alone, but i did kick some serious ass.

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you just hapened to get in my line of knowledge

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a fellow motor guy? i did some motor courses a few years ago. i was the only one who actually knew wtf was going on. i got 100% and i was always the fastest to tear those babies down and get them back together and running. i even managed to fix 60 year old chainsaw. do you design them or just work on them? i particularly like the design part.... in grade 10 i designed a new type of rotary engine, but i dont know if it would work.

well i dont design, but when you wanna built a Remote controle toy with 4 cilinder boxer aprox 90BHP.... yeea you could say i worck with them, i lust love engins i have a truck differential on my desk what can i say

ouuuu and about the design i see you got some skils, if you want 6 cilinders, put 3 side by side ... like this:

the 2 round things are the two pulleys where you could put a belt drive
i this setup you get half the size
sorry for my sketchup skilz, or lack of them :(

i was thinking about 3 side by side to get 6. its a possibility, but it adds a little bit of complexity. im not quite there yet... my thoughts progress to things like that over time, but a week isnt enough. im sure ill eventually be talking about some sort of W-motor.... thats actually not a bad idea... a W-motor (i cant remember the name, but its got three cylinders 30 degrees apart instead of 2 at 90 or 60 degrees). see, ill get there, just give me a few more days to think things through.

now, remember i said i had some ideas to simplify and downsize things?

numbers:

1. output, water goes out from here, each cylider has one, and each one has a valve

2. cylinder input, just a hole, no valve, ill probably have more than two per cylinder to reduce resistance

3. hole to make a route between the cylnder block and the top block

4. same as number 3, 3 and 4 join up

5. master input to the cylinder block


ok, i think this may be the best design yet. ill walk you through it. water comes in from the radiator, and goes into the master input, and into the cylinder block. the cylinder block will be made of tubes inside of a box, so there will be space for water to be in there, and not just in the cylinders (this is because the cylinder block will act as a reservoir too). so the water is in the cylinder block, and it travels up through numbers 3 and 4, to get into the top block. the top block also acts as a small reservoir. once the water is in the top block, it goes through the cylinder inputs, and then gets pumped out of the output. one thing i did realize while writing this is ill need walls in the top block to separate each cylinder, or they'll just start transferring water to each other within the pump, and nothing will actually come out.

so this works out to a fairly simple design with the least number of moving parts yet. one master input with a valve, and 6 outputs with vavles... 7 valves. compare that to my first design (12 vavles) and my two stroke crap design (24 valves at the very least) and we have a clear winner so far.

ive got the efficiency of flow pretty much down in my mind now. ill start working on actual cylinder layout now. there are a few ways to do this, and it all depends on what uses the least moving parts again.

you my man just climb a notch in my book with this idea, its great i love it(using the block as a res that is sweeet,but i'm not shure if it's gonna with the one master input valve setup.....let me think i'm not shure, the valve may not have time to close), now the hard part: crankshaft

don't you need more valves? the water flows into the cilinder when the piston goes down, but if you don't have valves at the cilinder inputs (2 in your picture) the water/oil will flow back into the resevoir instead of going out through the output-port (1)
Or am I missing something?

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but i'm not shure if it's gonna with the one master input valve

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the design will evolve... all will be solved in time.

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don't you need more valves?

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in my perfect world, no. the idea would be that as each piston goes down, it increases the volume inside the pump, and the master valve would open. when each piston is a bdc (bottom dead center) the volume is no longer increasing and the master valve would close (no more water flowing in to make it open). then when the piston starts going back up, ideally, the water will go up into the output...... hmmmm.

i just ran through a couple cycles of the pump in my mind. even with a wall in the top block separating each cylinder, the water will still backtrack through the valveless holes. uh oh. now its a necessary design evolution again....

thats what i get for designing at 1 in the morning.. see why my roatry engine probably wouldnt work?

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Originally Posted by Slug Toy

thats what i get for designing at 1 in the morning.. see why my roatry engine probably wouldnt work?

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the water will still backtrack through the valveless holes

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lol, you see what i mean, i'm looking at it the only thing that comes to my mind is OVER-HEAD valves,its the most simple way , but still using the block as a res (love that one), and a nother thing, we are twistng our brains on the valves setup for some time but what about the crackshaft,are you gonna push the pistons one at a time or in pairs(the one by one setup is in my head the best otherwise you could get..... bad suction... i'm shure there is a word for this hmmm "cavitation"?:? )

BTW: know what you should do? you should make a protype, a 2 cilinder one, the best way to test things

ive got the valves straightened away now

some of it is the same:

1. master input, this time no valve

2. the holes to make a route into the top black again, still no valve

3. cylinder output, one valve each

4. cylinder input, one valve each


so, it works the same way, except this time the design is a sure fire thing. i KNOW it will work. of course, there still will be changes, just for the heck of it. ill probably think of something cool to do.

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what about the crackshaft

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well that is the next step now. im leaving the valves alone for a while, i dont think its getting any better than what it is at the moment. ive boiled the crankshaft down to two possibilities. in terms of the least moving parts, a hexagonal setup with each cylinder 60 degrees apart is easiest. this will allow for a single section to run all the cylinders.

in terms of space saving, the W setup is the best. this will use twice the number of moving parts as the hexagon idea, but it is still very doable.

ive got to do some drawing and geometry now. ill decide which direction i want to go once i have everything mapped out.

just to mention. i did some math... and assuming a "bore" of 2 inches, and a "stroke" of 3 inches, to get around a 70cfm rate of flow, the pump only needs to operate at 30rpm (1 revolution every 2 seconds). so this can mean i can half the size and go with 60 rpm, or i can stay where it is. ideally, to save space i would want to make it smaller. maybe ill do a little math with a bore of 1.5 inches and a stroke of 2.5 inches.

Ok, now that the valve thing is solved, I'll just sit back and watch as your design takes more shape... :D

who's got my popcorn??? :P :D

one thing, you should ad a tube on the holes that make the link betwin the block and header, a tube there will ,make yore life a lot easyer, because it would alow for some air in that space after all, it will be the res of the setup!
what do you think ??

ideally i wouldnt want any air at all, because it may start making noise if it starts getting into the cylinders or the actual cooling loops. i could add on a separate section to deal with air though. im going to get through this hexagon vs W thing first.

hmmm, my geometry is melting down right now. its actually pretty hard transferring angles and lengths over to sketch up and have it work right. ive only just started using it though, so i dont know if theres a function to create defined angles and sides......

right now it looks like the W shape pump wins overall though. i just have to get a model of it done to show you guys what im thinking. im off to a friend's house now though, so its going to have to wait until tomorrow.

ok, after many hours of trial and error, ive got it for the most part.

so this is the W pump i was talking about. well, its actually the cylinder block of the pump. it took me so long just to get that figured out i decided to give up while i was ahead and before i screwed everything up.

the way i see it, its the most efficient design. it has the least number of moving parts possible while still having the smallest size possible.

so now all you need to do is imagine the valve system that i decided upon, and put it on this picture here, and you have a pretty much finished pump. ive just got to think about how the crankshaft, conrods, and pistons will look. it will probably be fairly basic though... no need to overthink anything.

thats it for now. its all ive got. im going to see if i can fix up the case design now. its a good design, but its not great now that ive had a chance to look at it for a while.

hhhmm.... i love it, you did a great job
I was thinking the other day about the crankshaft, what are you gonna use for constructing it ???

i saw you were online and was expecting to see a post any minute. i guessed right.

well i think everything will be made of acrylic. this way nothing will be harder/stronger than anything else, and parts will wear evenly. ill probably use a combination of 1/4 inch acrylic sheet and two different size acrylic tubes (1.2 inch inside diameter, and half inch outside diameter). the half inch outside diameter tubing will be for the crankshaft, and so will the 1/4 sheet, and the 1/2 inch inside diameter will be for the conrod.

everything will slowly be updated from the looks of it.... the case will go through some changes, and ill add more detail to the pump model. words just dont work too well for designing purposes. im still not quite sure what direction i want to take the case in... i dont like deloreans, and its looking kind of like one, so that has to change. all i know at the moment is that the redesign needs to accomodate the pump now (the original idea didnt do that).

im going to have to do some more math about flow rates too, because the 70cfm at 30rpm was assuming all six cylinders were being used. im only using one cylinder per loop (one cylinder at 30rpm puts out 11.7cfm), so i need to see if i need to change dimensions or speeds or both (i dont really want to start adding cylinders or else ill end up with some sort of monster). actually, to tell you the truth, i dont even know what kind of flow rate is good for a water pump.

i should mention now that im kind of writing this as i think of it. and speaking of that, if i need to add cylinders, ill switch to a radial design like on old propeller planes. maybe do 12 cylinders, and then ill put the pump unit outside the case on the right hand side so you can watch it go.

now my heads going a mile a minute. i need to figure this out before i drive myself crazy with questions.

you're right you should slow down a bit, take a step back and then...... jump in again :D.
About the cilinders: if you decide you want more and make a redial that will make building a crankshaft much more easy, but i dont personaly like that setup because half of the pistons are inverted, most valves are gravitational so that would be one more pain in the a$$.
I dont see nonthing wrong with the flow, because you dont have a centriugal pump, with a piston pump brunt, i think it will be ok, the only alternative i can find (and found i did 2 year ago) is to buy a v8 bug block :D
just a joke
<edit> I wanted to ask you this for a while:what time is it at youre place, in here is 10:25 in the morning

well right now its quarter to 1 in the morning over here.

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if you decide you want more and make a redial that will make building a crankshaft much more easy

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that was what drew me to the hexagonal design... the simplicity of the crankshaft (i have a feeling the crankshaft is going to give me quite a bit of trouble no matter what though). for more than 6 cylinders, the radial approach is the best idea, but im right on the border right now.

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most valves are gravitational so that would be one more pain in the a$$

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i think ill use some of those rubber valves that you find in air pumps and things like that. they are suction based, so gravity isnt a problem, especially when there is water on both sides of the valve to keep pressure fairly equal.

im right in the middle of checking out some specs on normal centrifugal pumps to see what kind of flow rates are good. after that, bed time. ill get back on here tomorrow after school.

yikes, one last rather startling thing before i call it a night.

i was just checking some of danger dens pumps. they are rated a 1000 liters an hour on their maximum setting. this works out to about 16.7 liters per minute.

i did some math, and assuming one cylinder in my pump does 11.7 cubic feet per minute at 30rpm, that works out to about 316 liters per minute. thats roughly 19 times what is needed.

looks like i CAN do some changes to the size after all.

well what can i say....... take a big nap
yeahh thoes valves will work ok i think
ps: the crank is scary, i know

i'm out! gotta go to power lifting, body building thingy caled gym:( :(
<edit> didn't get to see the last port you made.... damn you're way over the mark, i agree you can make some dimension changes, or you make a total overkill and leave it as it is :D

looking really sweet!!! will keep watching...

and by the way, let me imagine a mile ahead like you did :P
If you're going for the radial thing, why not make the whole case-design a plane... might look sweet...