Gettin greasy ...

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Originally Posted by Konrad

Another new (and probably bad) idea: what about a magnetically clamped heatink? Iron is an inferior thermal conductor, true, but some of the AlNiCo alloys would make fairly decent heatsink materials. Admittedly the CPU block is probably copper faced, but it can always be chemically plated with something else. (Powered electroplating isn't strictly required for most metals, it just makes the reaction faster.) I'll admit I have reservations about how stable n-billion circuit gates would be when in immediate proximity of an intense magnetic field. Again, just throwing the idea out there.

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Maybe I'm missing something here, but this would just be to clamp the heatsink to the CPU, yes? In that case you would run into the same problem that TIM was created to solve all over again. Ideally TIM would never be used, and both the heatspreader on the CPU and the bottom of the heatsink would be perfectly atomically flat with absolutely no space inbetween them. Because this isn't feasible, we try and fill the inevitable empty space with the most conductive stuff we can get. Using a different method of attaching the heatsink wouldn't solve that problem.

Mach, that is the exact reason we came up with the 20, 10, 5 idea. If you can get the binder % down to around 15% or even less then the conductivity rises exponentially. The truth is though, that once you get to a certain point, you will only see temp differences in the fraction of a degree range. There are companies that spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on TIM R&D. They have lab grade equipment, lab grade materials, and scientist with Graduate and PHD level chemical education working to squeeze out that last few tenths of a degree. Sure we can make an awesome TIM but at what point does it become more cost effective to just buy a $10 tube of the stuff and call it a day? There is also a very good reason you need a liquid binder. With out it you will never get your TIM to lay even or "flow out" The key to a good TIM application is getting it to evenly cover the CPU and HSF base with the right amount. Too little and your temps suck, too much and your temps suck. This is the exact reason I spread the TIM on the HSF with a fresh razor blade. It allows me to uniformly cover the base and control the thickness of the application. Some people like to put a dab on the CPU and let it level itself. This is bad practice IMO, but that's an argument for another night.

I am still going to make some diamond TIM just because its fun and making things is what I live for.

Mach, I thought about using a painters pressure pot or modifying a pressure cooker. If I can pull 80-85 kPa I will be happy. Do you think either would be sufficient?

Spreading with a razor blade? That's magnificent, I've never thought of it! A tech-buddy of mine demonstrated "proper" application of the TIM as shown on page 120 in this old IBM service manual and I've stuck with it since.

I also know about honing and lapping the undersurface of the heatsink to a nice shiny bright and perfectly smooth flat finish to help insure best contact; apparently that's standard fare these days for anyone who's serious.

Can you impart any other worldly tricks, advice, wisdom, or linkies that might be helpful?

http://www.thebestcasescenario.com/f...ge/?q=node/360

Read all the pieces, come back, and let's add a third mind to our TIM development group.

And if you wanna know why I'm not employed somewhere, I'm handicapped. I do this for the sheer love of it. So I can do whatever I want, including invent stuff if I feel like it.

We need to make up a batch of this stuff, CJ. I have an idea...

Ha, that's a ton of info; important details I knew but you evidently know better, important details I'd never considered examining. I won't be the first to state your guide is a Must Read.

It led me to some pages about Intel IHS Lapping (which I've done) and Removal (which I don't think I've got the balls to try) - seriously, removing the IHS from an OC-worthy processor with a blowtorch? Do you actually do this sort of thing? I can certainly see the advantages of getting a crappy factory IHS off, modding or fixing or replacing it with something more efficient. I'm already haphazardly thinking about directly immersing an exposed running processor die to circulated Midel ... workable?

And a question in a bit of the opposite vein:

Is it possible to overcool a processor? To actually bring the running part under minimum operating spec or cause some kind of thermal shock/failure between it and the surrounding electronics (motherboard socket, etc)? I'm not talking LN2 or some other exotic, but I'm asking if a point is reached where there's electrical or physical strain between a very cool part and the hotter parts running nearby.

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Originally Posted by Konrad

...seriously, removing the IHS from an OC-worthy processor with a blowtorch? Do you actually do this sort of thing?

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I don't think anyone here does this regularly, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of the 'crazies' here have done it before. :D

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Originally Posted by Konrad

I'm already haphazardly thinking about directly immersing an exposed running processor die to circulated Midel ... workable?

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It's workable, although only if the liquid is actively cooled as well. Otherwise, the liquid will continue heating until it reaches a relatively high plateau. At that point it's no longer effectively cooling the immersed hardware. I've been planning an immersed rig for over a year now...:(...one day, if I stop making changes to it, I'll start the build.:)

Cooling components well below freezing temps puts stress on them, but you aren't going to accidentally over-cool your chip!;)

I ran a direct-die cooled chip. It worked, and I set a record with it, but I'll never do it again.

And I AM one of the crazies here.

Oh, and BTW, I have torched a chip to remove an IHS. It was fun.

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Originally Posted by Kayin

And I AM one of the crazies here.

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/nod
:D

Non-blowtorch alternatives for IHS removal? I really suspect even momentary exposure to that sort of heat will degrade the part.

Do iCore processors have any embedded firmware? (I'm asking because mechanical cutting-drilling methods might generate ESD.)