What exactly is Reincarnation?
LoL That was a good one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slug Toy
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What exactly is Reincarnation?
LoL That was a good one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slug Toy
As far as I know, it's when your soul, after you die, comes back in a newborn animal or human--the animal or human depends on whether your Karma(record of doings) was good or bad.
So, someone who is bad would be reincarnated in a lesser animal like an insect--someone with great Karma might be reincarnated as a cow, or even a baby--but this transfer happens I'm guessing at conception, so basically, reincarnation is like the recycling of souls.
The ideas of karma and dharma are part of a select group of eastern religions. Most people focus on Buddhism, but miss Hinduism and Sihkism.
Others have worded the idea of Karma for these religions much better than I can.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism#Karma
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma_in_Hinduism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikhism#Pursuing_salvation
Westerners don't often understand the full implications of karma. They see it as a reward and punishment system in a spiritual sense, similar to the way heaven and hell works, just with many, many more steps and rules. For some sects, it is this way. For many it isn't. The philosophical ideal I've learned from the few real Buddhists I've talked to explain it more as the definition of dharma with humans. Coming to have peace and understanding with others. Not acceptance, but peaceful acknowledgment of their existance, personality and actions.
Many different groups believe in reincarnation. Some believe reincarnation in a physical sense, some believe it to be in a spiritual sense. Some even believe it can happen in the same lifetime. A good example of this is Aleister Crowley and Jack Parsons. One is an infamous occultist and the other isn't well known except in occult and aerospace circles.
Both claimed to be the bringers of the new AEon, just in different ways, and both were successful in their own views of the world. The basic idea here is a direct manipulation of the soul and the interaction of the soul with their physical existence. This is a form of reincarnation.
Building upon the ideas of the book of revelations and both utilizing the methods of goetia and the books of Enoch, both men decided to change their basic understanding of world. Crowley formed an organizations called the OTO and Parsons started writing a memoir detailing this transformation.
There are still many other groups that believe in reincarnation. Most shamanic religions believe in some sense of the soul becoming part of the land, or of the creatures that inhabit the land, or the sky. In certain pagan sects, the idea of souls creating their own constructs of existence and choosing to be born into physical form.
More often than not, the new age belief of the collective unconscious mixes with the ideas of reincarnation. Deepak Chopra mentions reincarnation in some of his works, specifically dealing with similar veins of thought as those of the pagan groups above, that a soul will choose to live a mortal life again and then attach itself to a living form that is unborn.
Wikipedia's entry on reincarnation is very generalized and isn't a great description of the real meat and potatoes on specific groups. Take it with a grain of salt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma
Occult studies is something I do quite often and take a certain pride in my knowledge in because so few people are willing to try to understand what it's actually about. They take things at face value and what media and others have told them. As a result of the lack of real knowledge, I'm leaving an open invitation to everyone on this forum. If you have a question that is often classified as occult, wiccan, pagan, satantic, etc please ask. PM me, ask in this thread, shoot me an email. I've been learning and practicing for a little over 5 years now and I will try to answer your questions truthfully and honestly.
I'm going to leave this long, drawn out post with two quotes, and the way I feel about the idea of an afterlife and about religion/spirituality as a whole.
"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." -Robert Heinlein
"There is no conclusive evidence of life after death. But there is no evidence of any sort against it. Soon enough you will know. So why fret about it?" -Robert Heinlein
Much better answer nil8--I only knew the very basics, I guess. Wow. A discussion on the Satanic would be interesting--I study it, but more as a defensive measure--you know, the whole, "To know your enemy is to know his strengths and weaknesses".
It would be interesting to see what you know on the occult.
I thought the Satanic religion didn't have anything to do with Satan?Quote:
Originally Posted by jaxspades
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_Bible
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anton_Szandor_LaVey
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Satan
Yeah, it's the worship of Satan.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/satanism
Plus, etymologically, it makes sense.
Satanism involves more than just Satan--but Satan is still at the root of all of its beliefs.
I recently bought a book on Satanism, and it contains many of the Satanic beliefs--I'll get a title up tomorrow, after the 6 hour drive back to school....school:dead:
Also, I have another book called Angels and Demons--not Dan Brown's novel, this is a non-fiction book (non-fiction to me at least...depends on your stand with whether the bible is fiction or not), which explains angels and demons through scripture. Again, I'll get a title and author up tomorrow, if you are interested. It also spends several chapters on the Satanic and the Occult.
Hey, nil8, have you ever heard of the book, The Wizards That Peep?
I have heard about it, and I have been looking a while for it--it's apparently an entire book devoted to the studies of the Occult--again from the defensive standpoint.
Well, those are the only books I know of on the subject. I'd be interested in any titles you guys have read about it.
Quote:
This religion recognizes Satan, generally as a life principle. Followers are usually serious adults, although a few are mature teenagers. Of the many main traditions which exist, the Church of Satan is by far the largest. Other Satanic groups currently exist and have existed in the recent past. Many are short-lived; their web sites often come and go within a few months. According to Statistic Canada, the 1991 census found only 335 Canadians who identified themselves as Satanists. This would imply that there may be on the order of 3,500 Satanists in the U.S. The actual number is probably significantly larger. A US Department of the Army pamphlet #165-13 estimated that there were 10 to 20 thousand members of the Church of Satan in the US during the late 1970's. 1,2 Accurate data for this movement is impossible to estimate, since the largest group (the Church of Satan) does not release its membership totals.
It is important to realize that the Satan that they recognize has few if any points of similarity with the historical Muslim or Christian concept of Satan. The Satanists' concept of Satan is pre-Christian, and derived from the Pagan image of power, virility, sexuality and sensuality. To almost religious Satanists, Satan is a force of nature, not a living quasi-deity. Their Satan has nothing to do with Hell, demons, pitchforks, sadistic torture, buying people's souls, demonic possession, performing miracles, human sacrifices, cannibalism, and profoundly evil deeds.
Maybe there is more than one Satanic religion? Just like there is many different versions of Christianity. For example, the Christan God and the Mormon God ARE different as my old youth pastor stressed to point out to me when we were in Salt Lake City.
What do you know of this nil8?
I think I have that book? I'll have to see if I can find it under my bed somewhere. lol thats usually where everything ends up. ><Quote:
Originally Posted by jaxspades
Is it worth the read jaxspades?
So far it was to me...But it explains the Satanic and Occult that worships Satan, not a force of nature.
Oh!
Author is a Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod Pastor named Pastor Scheutze. It was published by Northwestern House recently--like maybe around 2003?
It is part of the "People's Bible Learning Series", an off shoot of the People's Bible Series--The former is subject oriented, things like Prayer, Christian Freedom, Sanctification, Baptism, etc., where the latter is a commentary on the NIV bible, and generally explains an entire book of the Bible in one of its books in the series--very in depth commentary, but it gets expensive as there's 50+ books in the series at about 15-20 bucks.....yeah...
Sorry, back on track, I thought it was worth the read, it teaches about Archangels, The Angel of the Lord in the Old Testament, angels in general, and also covers the fallen angels, the Occult, and I think something like attacks on Christianity--not in those words, but something like that--stuff like Ouija board (I know what you are thinking, "That Milton Bradley game!?!" It has it's tracings way back in the Occult, and I guess it is still used by Mediums today...also, If I remember right it was kind of blamed for a demon possession of a young boy who's story inspired the popular Horror film, The Exorcist.) and Witchcraft and many other things I think--I haven't quite finished it yet.
Man, I need to organize my thoughts better--I hate ADD.
The typical idea of a Satanist is more closely defined as a Luciferianism. It is the worship of Lucifer as defined by Christianity. This group is notoriously hard to find and they have no organization associated with them. I've met one and I've been actively seeking them for almost 3 years.
LeVeyan Satanism & Setian Satanism doesn't. Both of these focus more around the idea of embracing the part of each one of us that we hide or loathe. The murderer, the rapist, the sociopath. To understand our internal beast and to make it work in the way we want instead of repression or denial.
Every human is capable of horrific and unthinkable acts. To let the beast inside of them run the show. If there is no control of this aspect of ourselves, then when it does occur, we have no control over our actions. The idea of modern Satanism is control and manipulation through ritual and deconstruction of the concept of self. Most methods utilize the left hand path and either goetia, neoreichan technique or sigil work. Some use all three.
A large focus of this is to understand the nature of humans through the idea of herd mentality. Some people are sheep, some are there to move the sheep. What the herders move the sheep to is the herders choice. The sheep follow and do so willingly.
It is highly sociopathic and can cause large amounts of disdain compared to the 'every human is unique and wonderful like a snowflake' concept that is taught from a young age and has become imbedded in the bright side of new age philosophy.
If it's wrong or not is a question of personal morality and something an individual has to decide.
The quote I love to summarize this into a statement is by Nietzsche.
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."
[Edit]
3 posts by the time I had this one drafted and posted. Alright...
There are multiple sects of Satanism, but most have nothing to do with each other with one glaring exception, LaVeyan and Setian.
I have not heard of the book and I would be interested in getting my hands on the book about Satanism. If it's The Satanic Bible or The Satanic Witch by LaVey, be prepared for long dissertations. I an intimately familiar with both books.
Occult just means hidden. Nothing more. It's not a group, club, methodology, existence, organization, belief system or other organized unit. It is just a word that means hidden. In it's common usage, any religion that doesn't follow the mainstream methods of Christianity, Judaism, or Islam in a western society are called occult. Even some specific sects of Christianity are considered occult because of their uses and practices of magic and spell casting. The main one is Rosicrucianism, which helped spawn the Knights Templar and the Order of the Golden Dawn.
The Ouija board was not linked to the young man in the 40's whose story was the basis for The Exorcist. He was raised in a strict Catholic family that wouldn't have allowed such things.
Realistically, there is nothing supernatural about a Ouija board or the way it's used. Any good skeptic can explain that the movement isn't from the dead, it's from ideomotor action. The brain doesn't think the muscles are preforming the act basically. Get multiple people to move a small object across a table that seems like the dead are speaking. In reality, it's a neat parlor trick. Never pay for it and don't believe a word of it. It's another form of cold reading. Just like psychics. This is just my opinion, take it with a grain of salt.
The Ouija board came into popularity during the mid-to-late 1800's and early 1900's in part thanks to a woman named Blavatsky. She was one of the first people associated with the 'occult' and spread a lot of eastern european tradition into America. The Nazi message was influenced by Blavatsky, and is the reason that the Swastika became the chosen symbol. Outside of that society, the swastika often means tranquility, peace, or harmony. It has also been utilized as a balance in existance, or the wheel of life.
Almost any fundamentalist Christian book published between 1978 and 1990 dealing with the occult or satanism points towards the now debunked idea of "Satantic Ritual Abuse". An unfounded portrayal that Satanists are murders and rapists. Not a single case has ever been proven to occur. This came as a backlash to LaVey's Church of Satan and the US gov't recognizing it as a religious institution and the benefits that come with.
Demonology is an old, old study and I'm not as well versed as some of the people I know, so I will probably ask them over the next few days if any questions arise dealing with it.
The ideas of Enochian deal heavily with angels, specifically 4 Archangels to represent the 4 sides of the Enochain alter. Enochian is said to be the written language of the angels. I am no expert and know far too little on the subject to go into detail about it. Enochian is often dealt with around the same time as goetia, which I am familiar with.
Man, that's a lot of stuff.
I like that Nietzsche quote--very true. If you let your "sinful flesh" run rampant like that, then you're only going to become a monster(I hope I interpreted that correctly nil8...).
To me, even if the Church of Satan, or other Satanists for that matter, do not speak about him, or openly worship him, these kind of actions are just what he wants--an open door to the monster within. That's kind of scary to me--I don't like that part of me, and I would rather be rid of it then to use it.
nil8--why do they use words that have their roots (Satanism, Satanic) in Satan's name, if they do not follow him--as they put it?
another thing nil8--I once saw a video of a seminar on Satanism, or Luciferianism as you put it.
The guy talking had at one time been a high priest in the Church of Satan. He did worship Satan, and many other demons such as Ashteroth.
He left the Church of Satan after he had summoned Ashteroth to do their bidding against an old lady who was bothering one of his members in their local gathering. He said that Ashteroth came screaming and cursing back, yelling at them as to why they would be stupid enough to send him after a Christian woman...This priest thought, "hey, I thought Satan held power here...." and converted to Christianity. I'm not sure of his motives though...I mean looking for the more powerful being...? Not a good motive to me, but whatever...anywho, I need to find the title of that video for you.