So my friend wants a new computer for Civilization V

So, as the title says, my friend wants to buy a new computer for when Civ V comes out, and he's asked me to help him find parts for one. Unfortunately, I haven't really been paying much attention to newer stuff, so I'm not quite sure what he should get. Therefore, I've come to ask everyone here ;).

Here are the parts I've selected so far:

Motherboard : ASUS P7H55-M Pro mATX H55 LGA1156 DDR3 PCI-16 PCI-E1 2PCI SATA2 HDMI DVI VGA GBLAN Motherboard

Processor: Intel Core i3 530 Dual Core Processor Clarkdale LGA1156 2.93GHZ Hyperthreading 4MB Cache Retail Box

RAM: Corsair CMV4GX3M2A1333C9 4GB DDR3 2X2GB DDR3-1333 CL9 Dual Channel Memory Kit

Now the thing is, he's very intent on not spending more than $ 80 on a video card (which I'm not even sure is possible for playing modern games). I'm guessing what comes integrated into that i3 is probably garbage for games too.

Anyone have any suggestions/comments .etc?

Thanks!

Newegg has a gigabyte 9800GT for $60 after rebate. Link

You can find GT240's and 5670's for that price. Not heavy hitters, but decent enough for low resolutions, lower eye candy.

If you go used you can find some pretty good deals on 4850's, 8800/9800GT's, GTS250's, etc.

Under $100 will still get a pretty powerful GPU.

lol... i think your best bet is to ask him for his budget, and sneak a 5770 in there... maybe flip over to an AMD quad core (which, will completely own an i3 on many levels) and use the money there to sneak in a 5 series card or a 4 series card with it to give him a little more eye candy.

Ya, I was thinking maybe a 9800 GT or something like that. I've been using an 8800 GTS since mid-2007 (probably the most value I've gotten out of any computer component ever), and I've yet to encounter anything it simply cannot play :p. How does a 9800 GT compare with that?

Also my friend says he wants this thing to be potentially upgradable in terms of CPU, so I'm not sure an AMD CPU would be the best route for that.

I would also recommend going AMD for the pricerange it looks like you're looking at. If his budget now is (I'm guessing) ~$800CAD, chances are quite small that he will later want to drop $400 to upgrade the CPU to something crazy. Also, tbh, dropping a top-of-the-line CPU in a sub-$1,000 system is just gonna introduce other bottlenecks.

What is his budget now (if you know)? I'm not familiar with the requirements of Civ V, but any new game I would be very hesitant of running it on an i3.

I would recommend this combination instead:
AMD Athlon II X4 640 : $116
ASRock M3A770DE MBB : $65
Mushkin Blackline 2x2GB DDR3-1600 (7-9-7-24) : $99

While the Althon II x4 640 isn't exactly the most powerful thing in the world, it'll nicely outperform that i3 and later he could upgrade to a Phenom II x4 or x6 if he wants to. Plus, that comes out to $50 lower than the i3 config, so that $50 could be diverted to the GPU instead, upgrading to at least a 5750 ($140), or maybe even a 5770 ($167).

EDIT:
I found the recommended specs (I ignore 'required' specs, as generally if you only meet those, gameplay is useless). I would not want to run that with an i3 if it were my choice.
http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/65031

The only thing that I noticed was the OP mobo is mATX while that ASRock board is ATX. I'm assuming it's going in an ATX case and won't be a problem at all, but I thought I'd mention it just in case.

Personally, I can never understand the brand new bare-minimum 'gaming systems' that people put together. Yeah, it boots, but it runs games with minimized graphics at minimum frame-rates. A friend of mine just built a new system and skimped on every component against my advice...my netbook could probably give it a run for it's money.:rolleyes: His incessant complaining about performance and pitiful benchmarks falls on deaf ears now.

I would suggest, if your friend has the money to spend on a new gaming system, that he just wait and save up a bit more money to afford something good. Buying a cheap component now only to replace it soon after is a waste of money when that money could have been allocated towards a superior component in the first place.

-OR-

If he's already got a functional system, simply upgrade it until the 'plunge' (mobo+cpu+ram) needs to be made. I would start with a decent GFX card, assuming his current mobo has a pcie x16 slot. That's how I've kept my desktop performance above average on a budget, and I've never had to drop huge sums at once.

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Originally Posted by ownaginatious

Also my friend says he wants this thing to be potentially upgradable in terms of CPU, so I'm not sure an AMD CPU would be the best route for that.

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Actually AMD is keeping up with the am2/am3 sockets for a while now they would be the one to look for on upgrading your processor without having to upgrades your motherboard (a BIOS update needs to be added for newer processors but beats buying a new one). The Intel processors keep changing sockets limiting your board to that generation (being i3, i5 and a few i7s). So if he's looking to upgrade on the cheap I'd look at AMD processors for future upgrades.

Hmm, perhaps AMD would be a better option then. There is basically zero chance of upgrading what he's got.

Here are his current specs:

AMD Athlon x64 Socket 939 Single Core at 2.2 GHz
2 GB (667 Mhz I think) RAM.
A8N-SLI standard motherboard
7950 GT video card

Is a 7950 GT still considered good? lol

Perhaps he can reuse that video card.

EDIT: Oh, and I forgot to mention. His budget is ~$400 CAD. He already has a case, harddrive, monitor and all that - so he only really needs a CPU, Motherboard, RAM and GPU (if the one above actually sucks :p)

First gen Fusion will drop into AM3 boards. He's MUCH better on upgrades on AMD.

For that budget I would go with the stuff I listed above, with the 5750. That comes out to $420CAD+shipping.

What PSU does he have? It may need to be replaced to power the new system. If it does, this would be my recommendation. It's the cheapest one I could find that I would trust for that system, taking into account possible future upgrades.
OCZ 550W : $65CAD

Also, on another note, how old is his HDD? If it's about the same age as the rest of his system I would highly recommend that be the next part that is upgraded.

Hmm, I'll have to see what type of PSU his old computer has. I'm pretty sure it's one of those ones that can switch between AMD and Intel. May or may not be crappy.

The harddrive he was gonna use is ancient (some 40 GB made-in-2001 piece of crap). I'm donating to him a slightly less dated 320 GB 7200 RPM IDE drive I no longer have a use for :p.

You could always design a system based a little higher then system specs. http://support.2kgames.com/help/take2_games/civV_spec

And if youre going to go with a 9800, might as well pay a few extra bucks and get a GTX+, its right around 100.00 with rebate from EVGA(I think).

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Originally Posted by ownaginatious

Hmm, perhaps AMD would be a better option then. There is basically zero chance of upgrading what he's got.

Here are his current specs:

AMD Athlon x64 Socket 939 Single Core at 2.2 GHz
2 GB (667 Mhz I think) RAM.
A8N-SLI standard motherboard
7950 GT video card

Is a 7950 GT still considered good? lol

Perhaps he can reuse that video card.

EDIT: Oh, and I forgot to mention. His budget is ~$400 CAD. He already has a case, harddrive, monitor and all that - so he only really needs a CPU, Motherboard, RAM and GPU (if the one above actually sucks :p)

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If Im not mistaken, 939 boards were AGP. He would not be able to reuse that video card.

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Originally Posted by Okele

And if youre going to go with <insert hardware here>, might as well pay a few extra bucks and get <insert slightly more expensive hardware here>

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Lather rinse repeat. This has emptied my wallet more than once. ;)

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Originally Posted by blueonblack

Lather rinse repeat. This has emptied my wallet more than once. ;)

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lmao +rep

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Originally Posted by Okele

If Im not mistaken, 939 boards were AGP. He would not be able to reuse that video card.

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The 939 generation was a transitional one, so it's probably about 50/50 whether it's AGP or PCIe not taking any other factors into account. However, iirc, while there were AGP versions of the 7950, they were pretty rare, so I'm gonna guess his is PCIe.

Ya, it's a PCIe one. The board even supports SLI :o.

The only thing I'm more impressed by is the presence of SATA ports on my dell motherboard from early 2003. Well, when it comes to crappy old hardware that is :p.

for a sub 80$ video card i'd probably check out what ebay has to offer, the 7950 is an alright card, but i probably wouldn't want to throw civilization V at it.

a 8800GTS or even 8800GTX is about 80~100$. might even find a 9800GTX+ on ebay for about 100$

i second taking a good look at the power supply. if the PSU is acient and under 500W 36A on the +12v rail theres always a 9800GT Energy efficient model that doesn't require a secondary power connection.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-279-_-Product

If it were me I wouldn't be able to justify buying an 8/9xxx series card for that much at this point, just for longevity reasons. Sure, they're fine now, but will they be fine in a year? They might be, but I'm guessing probably not...whereas the 5750 probably will be.

found an 8800 GTX on craigslist locally for $50 if your interested. PM me if you are

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Originally Posted by x88x

If it were me I wouldn't be able to justify buying an 8/9xxx series card for that much at this point, just for longevity reasons. Sure, they're fine now, but will they be fine in a year? They might be, but I'm guessing probably not...whereas the 5750 probably will be.

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My 8800GTS SSC edition was only 2,500 points slower then my 5770

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Originally Posted by Twigsoffury

My 8800GTS SSC edition was only 2,500 points slower then my 5770

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In what benchmarking program? What's the context?

Another big factor will be how much DX11 is adopted by the industry over the next couple years.

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Originally Posted by x88x

In what benchmarking program? What's the context?

Another big factor will be how much DX11 is adopted by the industry over the next couple years.

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oh haha oops 3dmark 2006.

the 5770 is faster on new games by a considerable amount, but the 8800 seems to be faster then the 57 on older d39/DX9 games.

kicks my buddies GTX260 on newer games as well.

DX11 does kick butt.

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Originally Posted by Twigsoffury

kicks my buddies GTX260 on newer games as well.

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For clarification, I'm assuming this was in reference to the 5770, not the 8800, yes? ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by x88x

I would also recommend going AMD for the pricerange it looks like you're looking at. If his budget now is (I'm guessing) ~$800CAD, chances are quite small that he will later want to drop $400 to upgrade the CPU to something crazy. Also, tbh, dropping a top-of-the-line CPU in a sub-$1,000 system is just gonna introduce other bottlenecks.

What is his budget now (if you know)? I'm not familiar with the requirements of Civ V, but any new game I would be very hesitant of running it on an i3.

I would recommend this combination instead:
AMD Athlon II X4 640 : $116
ASRock M3A770DE MBB : $65
Mushkin Blackline 2x2GB DDR3-1600 (7-9-7-24) : $99

While the Althon II x4 640 isn't exactly the most powerful thing in the world, it'll nicely outperform that i3 and later he could upgrade to a Phenom II x4 or x6 if he wants to. Plus, that comes out to $50 lower than the i3 config, so that $50 could be diverted to the GPU instead, upgrading to at least a 5750 ($140), or maybe even a 5770 ($167).

EDIT:
I found the recommended specs (I ignore 'required' specs, as generally if you only meet those, gameplay is useless). I would not want to run that with an i3 if it were my choice.
http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/65031

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After looking over this again, I think you're right; AMD is the way to go. I'm going to look more into this.

This had completely slipped my mind, but if you have a Microcenter accessible to you, they've been running a deal for a few months now where if you buy one of a few certain AMD CPUs you get a pretty nice Biostar MBB free (or for $9.99 in some cases). That would let him either get a much nicer CPU for the same amount or a slightly less powerful CPU for a lot less (taking the free MBB into consideration).
http://www.microcenter.com/specials/...ndlePROMO.html

Unfortunately, the deal is only available in-store, so you can't order it and have it delivered..at least not directly through them. ;)

Is microcenter a US-only company? I don't think I've ever seen one here (Canada) before.

Also, I've narrowed it down to two video cards to put in the thing. Every 8800 GTX/GTS I find online for less than < $100 appears to be a scam.

Anyway, the main differences between these two are 512 MB GDDR5 or 1 GB GDDR3. He uses a 1920 by w/e resolution monitor. The two are here:

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16814102901
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16814102834

Ah, right, I knew there was a reason it didn't occur to me before. :facepalm:

As for which of the two cards, I would go with the 1GB GDDR3 one. They both have the same memory interface bandwidth (256-bit), and though I cannot find a frequency listed for the GDDR5 one, considering that the 4850 was designed to use GDDR3 I can't imagine that it would be a massive improvement. I'm sure there is some improvement, but how much I can't say. Also, for the resolution your friend is pushing, that extra memory will help, especially if he's also running a second monitor off the same card.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by x88x

For clarification, I'm assuming this was in reference to the 5770, not the 8800, yes? ;)

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oh yea, that 8800 gets stomped by the GTX260

the cool thing about the 8800GTS SSC edition from Evga, it was the only 8800GTS card to have 112SPU instead of 96SPU, so basically its a really pissed off 9800GT before they released the 9800GT

if you can find a 8800GTS SSC, i'd really get it instead of a 9800GT. but a 9800GTX has 128SPU, and its the same as a new GTS250 series


8800GTS SSC was on the heels of a 8800GTX (128SPU) when i was benchmark waring against my buddy with a 8800GTX

I'd still recommend a 8000 series if his other options are a crap ATi 5000 series or a low end Nvidia card (sub 100$) most sub 100 nvidia cards have 64SPU and most sub 100$ Ati cards have 400SPU or even 320SPU and thats not something you would want to slap into a gaming computer and try to get a great gaming experiance out of it

seems most people think PC gaming sucks because they've only played on a crap store bought computer, or played on a PC with a super budget video card.

damn lemme tell you a quad core @ 3.8Ghz paired with a 5770 is pretty sweet, i can only imagine what a GTX470 or 5800 series ATi card would be like, i'm saving for another 5770 but i think what with my kiddos B-day and then christmas soon after that, i'm going to do the non selfish thing like always and spend it all on my kiddo

i mean seeing a huge giddy smile on my daughters face and getting super uber hugs and kisses while she plays with her new toys is 600x cooler then a new video card is, and besides there arn't any games i really can't play at maximum settings

I just don't like recommending something to someone thats not going to perform like i'd want it to perform myself you know : \


[edit] those sapphire cards are sweet, 800SPU, good core clock speed good memory speeds, it seems about on par on paper with what my 5770 is (except mines oc'd to the max) and i run 1920x1200 with any problems on all my games, even get to crank the detail to the maximum so im sure those 4800 series would be perfect and probably out perform what the 8800 would do.

I'd go for it man. 512MB is fine, 1024MB is awesome, i rarely use all 1024MB on my card except for GTA4 with the textures full blast.

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I'd go for it man. 512MB is fine, 1024MB is awesome, i rarely use all 1024MB on my card except for GTA4 with the textures full blast.

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Just to clarify, you're still talking about these two, right? lol

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16814102901
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16814102834

Anything more is kinda out of his budget. Even this is pushing it :p

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Originally Posted by Twigsoffury

but i think what with my kiddos B-day and then christmas soon after that, i'm going to do the non selfish thing like always and spend it all on my kiddo

i mean seeing a huge giddy smile on my daughters face and getting super uber hugs and kisses while she plays with her new toys is 600x cooler then a new video card is, and besides there arn't any games i really can't play at maximum settings

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Hmmm, too bad your daughter isn't into video games... :think:

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Originally Posted by x88x

Hmmm, too bad your daughter isn't into video games... :think:

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if I can get my GF into Videogames you, as a father, can get your daughter into them... :devious::whistler: