Sheet Music Computer for my Piano

that's an old photo of the piano in question...I thought the "coming soon" on the TV above it was rather appropriate :D

You may have seen my thread in the Idea Zone subforum; if you haven't, here's the plan. I have an ENORMOUS sheet music collection. I've printed about 40,000 pages of music on my faithful little Samsung ML2851ND laser printer, double-sided of course, and then bound them into books (the one on the piano in the photo above is one of my 3 Tchaikovsky books).

I have every piece written for solo piano or keyboard by around 60 different composers ranging from the late 1600's to the late 1900's. And I've got piano pieces by another 50 or 60 composers where I'm still missing much of what they wrote, but I've got at least 1/3 to 1/2 of their output for my instrument. Overall it's about 15GB of pdf files...!!

Ok...so it's a LOT. My current set of books weighs in at 300+ pounds - now only 1 shelf on one of bookcases in the photo above is empty. I don't really want to print any more music because of space and weight when it comes time to move again. And I have enough additional music to fill up probably another half a bookcase.

Enter the computer idea. About 80% of my music, maybe 90%, is free public domain pdf files from imslp.org, my own trips to libraries, etc. The rest is in real published books, and I can either scan it or find much of it online in old editions that are public domain now. I will build a relatively low-end, no frills machine whose purpose in life is to display said pdfs, full-screen, showing 2 side by side pages at a time. I can also use it, via Soundforge, to record myself playing.

The equipage? Glad you asked :D Overall I've only spent about $50 on it! Woo hoo!!

First, nicer but older pre-TV and pre-bookcases shot of the piano:

Pentium 4 system with 1GB PC-2100 RAM, onboard sound and video, and a 275W PSU. According to nevermind, who sold me the MB, RAM and PSU, I'll need to dismantle the PSU because its casing hits a heatsink and tends to short it. the blower on the CPU is pretty large, about 3" tall or so, and I'm thinking of getting a different HS/Fan. I *do* have an idea to do something with the one that's there...more on that if I can make the idea work. I realized I forgot to photograph the hard drive - it's an IDE 80GB Samsung I picked up in a trade with Sxrguy.

I'll be using an extra Logitech wireless keyboard and mouse:

Now for what'll make it unique. The major question that may have sprung to mind if you play an instrument is, how in the world will I turn pages?? It's all well and good to practice reaching for the page down key on the keyboard, but there's a high chance of missing it, and what does one do when there's a repeat to a prior page and one needs to use pageup?

Solution! I bought two USB footpedals from an ebay seller in Hong Kong. I'll map one to pagedown and one to pageup. Then I can just tap the footpedal when I need to turn a page. I typically use my right foot on the damper pedal, but there's only a couple pieces I play where I use my left foot on the piano pedals too so most of the time it'll be fine.

Lastly, I have an extra 21.5" Sceptre screen. It was my fiancee's screen, but she didn't like how it displayed reds....admittedly they are more of a neon orange...but hey, for BW music pages it'll work just fine. Physical dimensions of the displayed pages will be almost exactly 11" tall - smaller than standard published music books but the same size as my homemade ones. In the photo below, I left the base of the screen off. I've been keeping it in its box, and the base needs to be removed to fit it in there. The base is a MAJOR PITA to remove once it's clipped on.

Next up...I need to come up with a case design. I'm thinking of something shaped like this gorgeous wooden case from nMedia:

I lack the woodworking skills and equipment to do something like that, and I don't have $$ or space for that particular case. But I'm thinking I can maybe modify the design to fit my space, and make it out of plywood at least to start...we'll see. any advice in that area is appreciated!!

cool;) Love to see where this is going;)

yeah - it's gonna be pretty low budget as I'm out of a job ATM...but I want to make it as cool as possible. And I have extra bits left over from old projects that I'd like to use. For instance, I have a piece of acrylic that's about 1 square foot that'd make a good window, and some leftover thin foam rubber that'd be good to glue on the underside of the case to prevent it scratching anything.

I've come up with a few design possibilities -

1. Remove the screen from its plastic housing, and do a poor man's imac sort of thing - screen and computer as one unit. Screen would need to be tilted back at about the same angle as a normal music stand. I'd make a frame around the screen that would look like the music stand, but be bigger to accomodate the screen.

2. more or less same as above, but don't integrate the screen into the case.

3. Similar case as the nMedia one, but smaller - the nMedia can fit a full size ATX board, while mine is a mAtX form factor. I probably wouldn't do the metal panel on the front either - no budget for that sort of thing. Depending on how it turns out, and on how big it is, it would either go next to the monitor on piano, or on the floor, or behind the monitor.

One other thought - if anyone on this forum DOES have the woodworking skills to make a case similar to that nMedia one, let me know how much you'd charge to make the parts for me assuming I came up with the design/measurements. It may not be realistic since I'm trying to do this on the cheap, but it's at least worth asking :)

If you decide to go the second route the VESA mounting holes in the back of the monitor would be a way of integrating the case and monitor together quite cleanly. I know they make mini-pc cases that mount that way but it should be pretty easy to make your own.
An example would be this one from VIA. Just my two cents.

Ya, I'd thought of doing something like that. (TBH, I wish I had the cash for one of those VIA's - I'd much rather do something like that). Mainly the reason I began ruling it out is that if I integrate, then I want to be able to still put normal piano books up, which means needing a front framing that can double as a music stand. If it's just the monitor there with the PC bolted on the back, that may not work out as well. I'm keeping it in mind though :)

I've spent the morning fiddling with different arrangements in sketchup - I spent next to no time modeling as that wasn't important.

It took a few hours of moving things around, but I think I got it to the most compact arrangement possible. It's only about 8.5" deep, even including the screen. The case by itself at the base is only 6.5" deep, and at the top it's about 3.5" deep. Height is 9 5/8" and width is 13.75". The screen is also angled back like a music stand, although it'll be standing a little straighter than the music stand currently on my piano (I didn't want to make the base that much deeper).

The HD will look a little funny hanging from the top but hey, it doesn't fit well anywhere else.

Oddly enough, I tried a normal ATX PSU in the model instead of the weird one from the old HP system, and the normal ATX PSU was even harder to accomodate without making the case bigger.
I also plan on hinging the wall the monitor is mounted on so I can open up the case easily to get at the computer, and also easily get at the screws that will hold the standless monitor on the case.

The power cord will stick out the right side as will the monitor power cord; I'm hoping to fully contain the VGA cable in the case. I'll have holes drilled in the right side or back of the case so I can run USB cables into it.

Lastly, on the left there's a 120mm fan, and on the right 2 80mm fans. These fall into the "using up old otherwise useless stuff" category :)

Incidentally, while the screen's about 3" thick in the middle it's only about 1.5" or so thick at the edges; I just didn't feel like making a more accurate model of it when it served no purpose.

You can try running the power supply fully assembled first. If it's one of the bad older revision ones, the computer will likely power off within a few minutes. If it's the newer revision with plastic insulating the heatsink with current in it from the casing, it will be fine. It will run cooler, though, with some of the casing pulled off and fans blowing onto it.

Yeah I've already pulled off the top of the PSU case (it'll be staying off), and won't be using the fan it came with. It does appear that it was one of the newer ones, as there are several plastic sheets in there (including one stuck on the inside of the removeable top).
I'm wondering too how much of the PSU problem was lack of airflow - it's a terrible design, and the one I've got is super dusty. Cleaning is now added to today's agenda :)

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Originally Posted by artoodeeto

I lack the woodworking skills and equipment to do something like that

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Bah! That's defeatist talk! :D

Though, I will admit, doing woodwork properly in an apartment is difficult. If you decide not to try it yourself and can't find anyone else closer, I'd be willing to fab that for a reasonable fee. I might even be able to source the wood for free...just break down some of the drawerless dressers in my shed and hit them with a sander. :D

I may take you up on that - I just fabbed the parts myself today, but they're not going to look uber fantastic. On the other hand, it'll probably be ok since the case will hidden behind the screen.

I should probably rephrase what I said before about not having woodworking skills - it's more lack of tools I think. I really only have a jigsaw and power sander. No fence or straightedge, which is the biggest problem. Still, the parts I made today are fitting pretty well so we'll see how it turns out...

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Originally Posted by artoodeeto

No fence or straightedge, which is the biggest problem.

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A 2x4 and a couple C-clamps work quite well for that. ;) ..just make sure you get a straight 2x4...

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Originally Posted by x88x

A 2x4 and a couple C-clamps work quite well for that. ;) ..just make sure you get a straight 2x4...

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A piece of metal angle works as well. Aluminum is lighter but also bends easier the steel.

Yup, I just tend to gravitate toward wood more than not. ...that didn't quite sound right... Also, if you don't have either, a 2x4x8 at ~$2 is a lot cheaper than a length of angle iron. :whistler:

Lumber is a lot less likely to be straight or stay straight as it is subject to swellling and shrinking based on temp and humidity.

Sigquoted :D

and ya, finding a straight 2x4 is the issue. Also storing one LOL...not a ton of space here unfortunately. Still, my cuts today with the jigsaw were straight enough that it worked. The only time I've run in to serious issues was years ago when I'd started building a model of Orthanc to be a dual computer case. I'd made the upper and lower sections detachable for ease of moving it (it was over 8 feet tall and....heavy...) but my cuts were crooked enough that I ended up scrapping it when it came time to add all the detail on the outside. It's a mod I'll revisit at some point; I have very different ideas on how to approach it to make it better, not to mention lighter weight.

Anyway. I had a productive day today! Got the basic box put together, although I may have to remove a side panel to cut some more holes that I didn't think to do before putting it on. Specifically, an access hole for the power plug, and a hole in the back for the USB footpedal and keyboard cables. Also need to mount the power switch somewhere.

And.... :facepalm: Score one for my fiancee, who usually councils me against getting rid of things, even if I think I'm never gonna use it again and it's just taking up space. I’d planned on going to Fry’s tomorrow as I need more m/b standoff screws, not just for this case but for the one I’m going to build for my fiancée. But I discovered today I also need a (short) VGA cable and an IDE cable. I thought I'd kept one of each, but apparently I didn't. Argh.

Enough chat. Pics now! I air-compressored out the PSU and CPU heatsink. The heatsink looks a little better than before, the CPU fan looks no different, and the PSU looks a LOT better.

God look at that thick dust. Yuck! Unfortunately without completely dismantling it, I can’t get it off the blades. And I got the fan really spinning fast with the air compressor, and no dust came out…so I’m not going to worry about it.

The motherboard, as I discovered after peeling off an ancient HP sticker, is an Asus P4SD, which apparently they made for HP. I think I found the drivers online, so I should be good to go software-wise.

I’m gonna do something about this tomorrow…

Making the parts:

Test fit….yikes almost zero clearance!

Counter-sinking the screwholes:

Getting “help” – she knocked it over several times, amazingly without breaking it.

And voila! Box assembled and on the piano! That front panel is where the screen will be bolted, and it’ll have a hinge at the top so it opens. I will also remove the music stand when this machine is up and running, so it’ll all sit about a half inch lower.

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Originally Posted by msmrx57

Lumber is a lot less likely to be straight or stay straight as it is subject to swellling and shrinking based on temp and humidity.

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Once it's properly dried and seasoned it's not really much of a problem except in extreme situations. You're right though, with angle iron you're pretty much guaranteed at least damn close to a perfectly straight edge.

Looks good. Not the way I would have done it, but my way would have taken a lot longer, and I think required thicker boards as well. :P

For the dust caked on the fan, I've found a wet q-tip works fairly well...takes forever and a day though, so if you can live with it being there you might as well leave it alone.

I trust there will be some sort of felt or foam on the bottom before it's done? I'd hate to see the finish on that piano scratched.

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Originally Posted by x88x

Looks good. Not the way I would have done it, but my way would have taken a lot longer, and I think required thicker boards as well. :P

For the dust caked on the fan, I've found a wet q-tip works fairly well...takes forever and a day though, so if you can live with it being there you might as well leave it alone.

I trust there will be some sort of felt or foam on the bottom before it's done? I'd hate to see the finish on that piano scratched.

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Ya, since this will be hidden behind the screen, and since it's essentially an interim solution til I have the money for something better, I don't really care much about rough edges. It resembles a bread box and won't win any awards, but it'll work :) And yep, I have some leftover thin foam rubber I'll be putting on the bottom to prevent scratches.

re: thicker boards, what I really wanted to use was sheet aluminum, but if I can barely get a plywood box together then I certainly can't work with metal...yet...anyway. the reason I didn't use thicker plywood was mainly for saving weight - it'll be heavy enough as it is, I didn't want it to weigh a ton. Still, screwing it all together would have been much easier.

There was a lot more dust in the heatsink than you saw when I got that computer from school; Me and my friend who were both working setting up the computers for the new school year got nearly all of the computers filled with dust like that, and spent probably a good half hour blowing out all of the heatsinks with his air compressor. All of the exposed parts where the air comes in were covered in dust.


I wonder if you might be able to flash a non-HP bios.

The school district just gets rid of these computers with the P4s when they stop working, because they're older, the PSU is a HUGE PIA to get out, and I'm sure that replacements cost an arm and a leg. Our supervisors were supposed to bring all of the non-working computers back to the technology office for somebody who "recycles" them to take, but they let us have most of what we wanted (minus hard drives, since they swap them when re-imaging the computers) when we asked. At the first school we did, there were a lot of bad computers, and they all went into the dumpster. I went with my friend and pulled them all out after everybody else had left to go to the next school. After that, they started taking them back, and we just asked for them (they told us not to tell anybody lol). We also got a nice almost new CRT for our MAME cabinet with only a few bent pins and deformed connector (a dremel fixed half of that).

Well...got the case itself done today and got everything hooked up and....nothing. Won't even POST. I'm assuming the motherboard is dead, although I've got no real way of testing it short of getting a new one (anyone have a micro ATX socket 478 that can take PC2100 they're willing to donate? at the very least it needs to be mATX as my case won't fit anything larger). Arg....
I might try hooking up one of the other computer's PSU's to see if that's the problem, but it doesn't seem to be as everything seems to turn on ok. It just literally doesn't do anything after powering on...doesn't even scan the hard drive beyond the initial spin up. (and I did try running it sans hard drive, to see if it was preventing POST...no such luck).

Just tried hooking up a different PSU to the system...same result, so it appears the PSU is not the problem.

Sounds like it might be the RAM. How many sticks are in it? Do you have any other systems that you could test them in?

hmm...it's dual channel and I have 2 sticks in there, Samsung PC2100 512MB. I tried them in slots 1 and 3, then 2 and 4, then a single stick in one of the slots, all with the same result.
I started looking for more RAM to buy when I realized that according to the spec sheet I found for a slightly later version of the motherboard (which, as far as I can tell, just adds an AGP slot and a firewire port) it can take up to PC3200. It just so happens that's the RAM speed in my fiancee's computer...so I tried that and got the same result. The screen says "no signal" then shuts off, the hard drive is silent after the initial power on...and that's it. :(

At this point I'd say it's either the motherboard or the processor, and aside from buying new ones, I've got no way of figuring out which is the issue. I think I'll order both but will try the m/b - most places will take a motherboard return but not a processor. Unless anyone has a P4 socket 478, up to 3.2GHz (that's what's in there right now) they're willing to donate? :D )

Both worked fine before sending your way...

k...just ordered an MSI m/b with the Intel 865GV chipset - built in graphics, very similar specs to the board that's in there new, and it comes with a celeron 2.4GHz proc and heatsink/fan, all for under $50 (after tax and shipping!).
http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?inv...4-PB-R&cat=MBB
It's refurb, but I'm not too worried about that. I figure this way if the P4 proc is nonfunctional, I'll at least have the celeron. And the fan on the P4 was a little noisy too (those blower style fans just don't do well when vertical), so hopefully the normal fan on the celeron will be better.

And now for a few pics from yesterday:

monitor stand removal and figuring out VESA mount hole locations on case front

Case construction – figuring out where to put all the various screwholes, and countersinking them. I messed up on the front panel, I countersunk 2 on the wrong side, but luckily on one of them it wasn’t far enough in to really mess it up. And the other? Well, turns out I only have 3 screws that fit the VESA screwholes anyway LOL.

This is the underside, the screws that hold the funky PSU in place.

And cleaning and re-thermal greasing the P4 and heatsink…which now I may not be using depending on what component is responsible for the non-booting. Hopefully I’ll get my new stuff tomorrow; Wednesday at the latest.

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Originally Posted by nevermind1534

Both worked fine before sending your way...

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hmmm...did you use the onboard video? Or did you have a PCI vid card in there? I wondered if it wasn't set to use the onboard video, and maybe it's hanging at an error screen, but the problem is there's no apparent way to force it to the onboard without being able to see what the screen's showing. :( I'm hopin' that the new m/b with the P4 proc will work fine, but I'll keep poking around with this one this morning, while there's still time to cancel that order if I can get this working.
It's possible too that the m/b got non-visibly damaged in shipping. I had that happen to a m/b I sold on ebay once - it was fine when I had it, but apparently got dinged in shipping and was DOA (although the processor was fine).

Using the onboard. Have you tried pulling the battery to reset the CMOS?

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Originally Posted by nevermind1534

Using the onboard. Have you tried pulling the battery to reset the CMOS?

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Yep, that was one of the first things I did. I've also tried different RAM (the PC3200 DDR), no hard drive, which while it obviously wouldn't boot I should still get a POST screen, and a different much higher watt PSU. Also tried hooking the screen up to my fiancee's laptop to test it and the VGA cable, and both are working fine. Other than the problem being the MB or proc, I'm out of ideas...

Check for loose capacitors, etc. on the board?

If it's one of the two, I'd say it's the motherboard.

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Originally Posted by nevermind1534

Check for loose capacitors, etc. on the board?

If it's one of the two, I'd say it's the motherboard.

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That's my feeling too. None of the caps seemed loose or bulging, and the little green LED near the CMOS battery lights up when the power is plugged in so visually the mb seems fine. It just doesn't actually do anything :( I re-seated the processor too a little while ago, just to make sure. No change. It's what I expected but it was worth a try.

I realized I neglected to mention on the earlier set of photos - I forgot to take a pic of it after the gray primer coat, which is why there's an odd photo of it partly gray and partly black. I ran out of black spray paint after coating the outside, so that's why the inside is still gray. It's not worth going to the store and getting yet another can of paint, I was happy to have used up a couple cans of the 7 or 8 that I've had sitting around for years. I also glued thin black foam rubber to the underside to keep it from scratching up the piano.
Lastly, I *might* go back and coat the outside with a resin spray, to give it a nice hard glossy finish. Haven't decided on that one yet, but it could make it look much nicer than the flat black now. Any thoughts on that are appreciated. :)

More updates probably on Wednesday when I get the new motherboard. I was hoping it'd be here tomorrow but I forgot it's a holiday here in the States. One nice addition on the new board - it'll have SATA, so at some point I can upgrade the HD to an SSD without having to swap out everything else.

I see my line has been replaced as the sig-quote of choice...
Looks like it coming along nicely man

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Originally Posted by Mark_Hardware

I see my line has been replaced as the sig-quote of choice...
Looks like it coming along nicely man

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Thanks! Part of the reason I replaced it is, while I didn't notice til after I'd sigquoted you, AmEv had also sigquoted it just prior to me so I figured there's still someone on the forum who's using yours :)

And yeah, I'm pretty happy with the case design, except for one thing that occurred to me last night. I should have made the *back* panel the one that opens up, and had it folding down to lay flat. That way I could get to the motherboard unimpeded by the PSU or anything else, and the panel holding the screen would have been fully screwed onto the rest of the case. It should still work fine the way it is; because of how I cut the panels if I wanted the back one to fold down and still maintain structural integrity, I'd have to make almost everything again...and it's not really worth it.

I seem to take out all the fun, don't I? :rolleyes:

Looks good tho.

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Originally Posted by AmEv

I seem to take out all the fun, don't I? :rolleyes:

Looks good tho.

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LOL nah, not at all :)

In a bit of good news, the new mobo will be here today apparently! Man I love living within a couple hundred miles of where I'm ordering stuff - I pay for ground shipping and I get it overnight!

I'll have more pics tomorrow probably, but here's where it's at: got the new motherboard and Celeron D320 CPU, both seem to be working fine. The PC2100 RAM doesn't work, but I think it's because the FSB is set at 533MHz so it needs at least PC2700 in there. However, the PC3200 in my fiancee's computer works perfectly fine.
I need to get windows installed on it, and get files copied over and all that fun stuff. And order a couple RAM chips - have my eye on an ebay auction ending shortly...

One thing I noticed when I hooked up the new mobo - the fans were suddenly spinning a LOT faster than they did on the old one. Like, full speed. My initial thought was, hmm maybe the P4 was pulling a lot more power and didn't leave enough to run everything else. But then I remembered I'd tried hooking up a 600W PSU instead of the 185W, and the higher PSU didn't work either. So who knows, but it seems the net result was the old mobo wasn't letting enough power through its connectors to do anything.

Lastly, I'm a little concerned - the new BIOS is claiming the CPU is running 88 deg. C. Since I'm going to use PC3200 RAM I'm planning on trying the P4 back in there, so one way or another I'll be redoing the thermal grease and hopefully that'll solve that minor issue...more tomorrow - the trade-off for me working on the piano computer tonight is my fiancee wants to play Dragon Age on mine :D

Well, I discovered, after switching processors more times than I'd like to admit, it appears the PSU doesn't put out enough power to run the P4. It runs the Celeron ok, or at least it seems to. But with 2 sticks of RAM, the motherboard, the proc, the hard drive, and 3 fans (CPU and 2 case), it's probably drawing well over 100W and the PSU can only do 185 max.
Nevermind1534, if you read this I'm guessing that's why those HP systems had the random shutdown problem. I experienced it a few times, until I put the Celeron back in and all of a sudden it was stable.
I'm hoping to avoid having to get a new PSU, as that'd mean the entire initial system I picked up would end up unused and/or dead :(

Another bit of weirdness is the wireless USB keyboard works fine in the BIOS menu system, but as soon as it boots to windows it won't work. Tried plugging in a wired USB mouse too, to no avail. So it boots into Windows, but I can't do anything. It could be a driver issue - Windows wants to validate and is not going to the actual desktop, so no real chance to properly load drivers. I can't even load it into safe mode - I can shut it off during bootup to force the safe mode menu screen the next time I boot, but the keyboard doesn't work on that screen so I can't select safe mode. I *did* enable USB Keyboard/mouse support in the BIOS, but that didn't make any difference. I'm wondering if it's the PSU at fault - not putting out quite enough juice to run the USB ports. Luckily I can test that in the morning...more later...any ideas are welcome!!

Wait. Is USB keyboard/mouse enabled in the BIOS?

*Never mind, didn't read fully. That is strange though. Fresh install?

perhaps - I did determine this morning the PSU has nothing to do with it, as a 600W unit still gave the same result. What *has* worked, sort of, is using an MS wireless keyboard/mouse that has a PS2 plug for the keyboard in addition to the USB. The mouse still doesn't work, but the keyboard does now. I guess the issue must be driver related - the HD already had windows on it, and I was trying to avoid the hassle of reinstalling. But in the end it may be easier to wipe it and start over, we'll see...

Yeah, sounds like a USB controller driver issue. You could always try uninstalling the USB controller, then having it scan for new hardware and hopefully find a compatible driver.

heh...see the real problem is it won't let me log on until it's re-validated, which means outside of safe mode I can't do diddly squat. So what I'm doing now is I've put the RAM, keyboard, and IDE drive onto my fiancee's computer since mine would be even more of a hassle to hook it up to, and I'm copying all the drivers that I've downloaded onto the hard drive. Then I'll move everything back to the little computer, load it into safe mode, and with the software there I can at least get the drivers installed. This was supposed to be an easy mod LOL....