Looking for input on new phone.

Hey all!

I'm due for an upgrade on my phone in the next few days here and was wondering if anyone had any input. I'm probably looking to get a top tier android device, but I'm not really sure what to go with. I'm on Verizon, so unfortunately the nexus 4 is off the table.

These are the things i care about most:

• I want one of the currently more powerful devices.
• Preferably 4G or LTE.
• As Little bloatware as possible. I would prefer stock android but i know that's not likely to happen.
• I would like to go with a manufacturer that has a higher reputation for updating devices. I know Verizon has a problem with pushing out updates in a timely manner but i would like to do my best to make sure that i at least get updates eventually.
• I would like a phone that is Mod or Hack "Friendly." I know none of the manufacturers encourage this activity but i would like to know that it's possible / easy, mainly because i know i probably wont be getting first party updates. This can make up for a manufacturer that doesn't push out updates.
• A nice camera would be a plus, but i don't really take many pictures. Front facing would be nice for video chat.

I figured the guys around here probably use mostly android devices and might have some good input. I really don't want to go iPhone but the way android updates work out on Verizon, it could push me to an iPhone.

My experience is that "mod or hack friendly" generally means "a little bit older". The device has to have been around long enough for the pioneering hackers to break them, and unless you're one of those microcode guys with JTAG gear, a few tricks, and a lot of patience, you've basically gotta wait until someone else does the job. So it's basically "newest" vs "hacked" ... and the most popular devices will be the most hacked while the less popular ones may not be hacked until they're obsolete. So buy a popular device to get best odds if some kind of hacking/modding is a realistic objective.

No major manufacturer provides datasheets of this sort (although it can all be learned from physical part markings, FCCID searches, etc) - even those devices which do not take steps to physically obscure/disguise/remove or tamper-proof the parts will still use at least one proprietary codelocked ASIC-type IC which needs to somehow be "broken" or emulated, but fortunately most device makers are lazy and just repeat (well documented) old patterns on each subsequent device generation.

Your provider (Verizon) may limit your options; if they reject any devices on their network then your choices are automatically simplified (unless you consider other providers). They may also pre-install their own junkware into each device or impose various performance limits in their configuration (limitations imposed by network structure, billing tiers, or technical laziness). What I'm saying is that a responsive lightweight device might still be bloated slow cow when obtained through a particular provider.

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Originally Posted by Konrad

Your provider (Verizon) may limit your options; if they reject any devices on their network then your choices are automatically simplified (unless you consider other providers). They may also pre-install their own junkware into each device or impose various performance limits in their configuration (limitations imposed by network structure, billing tiers, or technical laziness). What I'm saying is that a responsive lightweight device might still be bloated slow cow when obtained through a particular provider.

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Yeah, from my experience, Verizon tends to load a lot of bloatware on to the phones they offer. I don't understand what drives them to do this. I could see if they are offering quality apps that add value to the device, but they just... aren't. I just don't understand. I'm also not a fan of most of the customer launchers manufacturers use, but that's a simple fix.

I wish it wasn't so pricey to just buy phones off contract. I wouldn't even know how to go about buying a phone directly from a manufacturer.

This is the one thing i genuinely applaud apple on. They won't put up with any of the carrier nonsense and offer their device as they designed them, directly to the consumer.

They get paid for each copy of the junkware which reaches the end-user. Multiple junkwares in some kind of bloaty "value added bundle" means the retailer can actually add significant "free" profit to each device they sell. Ideally, they can advertise big popular recognizable brand names (Nero, Norton, etc) which fool people into thinking they're receiving valuable "free" software with their tech.

This can be a bit of a problem on mobile devices, since they often won't allow users to uninstall preconfigured, unwanted, and sometimes crippling bloat.

Incidentally, I agree with you that Apple's stubborn position on this is commendable. But in the end, although companies like Apple are popularly seen as "good guys", they're just as corporate-evil-proprietary as the companies which people more readily condemn. I live in Canada, where Apple iToys are available on only one carrier (Rogers) with only one kind of (costly and constraining) contract, entirely imposed by Apple. Having said that ... Apple devices are actually quite good and worth considering ... unless you plan to jailbreak/etc to circumvent their proprietary system. Android devices are more of a mixed bag.

I just got the Galaxy Note 2, and love it. It's super fast and has a fantastic screen. It was easy to root, and after you root you can easily remove the bloatware with titanium backup. The hacking group for sammy phones is pretty good, but as mentioned earlier it's new so you're gonna have to wait a little bit for more ROM choices. There are some out there now, but I haven't tried any.

If the Note is too big the Galaxy S 3 is a badass phone too.

I'm on AT&T, and from what I understand Verizon locks their bootloaders.

i'm on verizon and have a droid bionic.

it was easy to root until i got the latest motorola update. however, the motorola droid razr is a good phone and easily rooted as well.

motorola uses their motoblur interface, but it isn't as intrusive as it used to be. the ics upgrade for my droid bionic is just stock android as far as i can tell.

also, i'm pretty sure motorola doesn't use carrier iq. so that is also a plus.

I've got an older Droid Thunderbolt 4G on Verizon. Unlocked the bootloader and rooted the thing after a few days. They had a ton of not only bloatware, but locked in links to a couple games that were not actually the games- merely links to go buy them in the store. Absolute crapware. Running a completely custom ROM from Infected ROMS and absolutely happy with it.

If you're down for a bit older phone, I'd take a good look around on EBay. Many like mine are available new for under $200 with no contract.

Thanks for all the input guys! I'll check those out and see how much they run. I didn't see any of them for sale through Verizon so I'd have to pay full price or go used. It could be worth it to not have to extend my contract though.

At the moment I was kinda of leaning towards a Galaxy S III. I could also still pick up a Galaxy Nexus as well which is only 50 with a contract extension. It would be a little out of date though.

I've looked at the Galaxy Note and i just think its to big for me to use as a phone. I also have a Nexus 7 that i carry around, so the Galaxy Note would be kind of a weird size. If i didn't have a tablet it would make more sense.

your pretty safe with any of the galaxy phones as they are popular and egt a lot of dev work.

Consider what you gain vs what you lose when cracking the firmware. It's always cooler to be unlocked, jailbroken, rooted, hacked, modded, and customized ... no doubt. But it's less chill when your device no longer provides the same functionality it could without the hacking. You lose any benefits the proprietary operating model offers, if not immediately then on future upgrades. Then again, many devices never see any kind of official upgrade.

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Originally Posted by Konrad

Consider what you gain vs what you lose when cracking the firmware. It's always cooler to be unlocked, jailbroken, rooted, hacked, modded, and customized ... no doubt. But it's less chill when your device no longer provides the same functionality it could without the hacking. You lose any benefits the proprietary operating model offers, if not immediately then on future upgrades. Then again, many devices never see any kind of official upgrade.

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For sure. It's not so much that I want to root, but more that i would like to know it'll be possible if i ever need to. I'm mainly trying to future proof the phone by knowing that once verizon / the manufacturer decide that it's time for me to buy a new phone if i want continued updates, I Can root and install third party software. If i can get away without rooting in the mean time i most likely wont. The one thing that would drive me to root right away would be excessive amounts of crapware.

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Originally Posted by luciusad2004

The one thing that would drive me to root right away would be excessive amounts of crapware.

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The reason I root and install custom roms on all my android phones. Also running JB on gingerbread phones that will likely never see even ICS is a nice thing means you can keep them and use them far longer than normal. Then you add it all the tweaks that increase battery life, performance and overall useability it really outclasses the stock firmware.

Are some carriers more mod-friendly than others? Are they able to detect when "nonstandard" devices are used on their networks, and how do they respond? If you actually own the device, do you have to "hide" the hacking from them?

Never known of a carrier ever knowing that you have done anything to a phone and I really don't think they could care less. If your phone can still make calls, send messages and suck data and they can charge you for it. Why on earth would they care one tiny bit what you use to do all that.

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Originally Posted by Stonerboy779

Why on earth would they care one tiny bit what you use to do all that.

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Big-name carriers would like it if you used THEIR app, instead of a more popular, more reliable equivalent. Money in their pockets.

Such as VZ Navigator. Seems to be a pay-for-using-it app; don't quote me on that. Google Maps, free, reliable, TBT navigation built-in. Thus, when you're not using Navigator, they're not getting the money.

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Originally Posted by AmEv

Big-name carriers would like it if you used THEIR app, instead of a more popular, more reliable equivalent. Money in their pockets.

Such as VZ Navigator. Seems to be a pay-for-using-it app; don't quote me on that. Google Maps, free, reliable, TBT navigation built-in. Thus, when you're not using Navigator, they're not getting the money.

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Yup. Another example, I'm pretty sure that Google Wallet w/ the NFC payment isn't approved on Verizon but Verizon has a competing service that is approved. I'm not sure how the Verizon service works but i don't know why i would want to choose that over Google Wallet. Not that Verizon cares, they just want to charge for the "convenience."

Da.n american carriers are in a messed up state then.

I suppose it depends on the specific arrangements the carrier has with the device and app makers, including all the junkware. They might have put themselves into a constraining position which obligates them to maximize all the subscriptions and per-per-use they can shovel out.

My experience is that people with Authoritah are sometimes anal every time they see other people colouring outside the lines, just because they can (or think they have to) control the system. Sometimes the retailers are cool and just play dumb, pretending they never thought of it or "didn't hear that", other times they're real hardasses who'll automatically flag you in their system as a troublemaking dirty ne'er-do-well for even daring to ask.

VZ Navigator is old tech, designed for the day before smart, or even semi-smart, phones came along. It works over their proprietary system and gets location based off cell towers. Of course, my shiny new smartphone came with Google Maps, but turn by turn Navigation unavailable by default. Of course, they also want you to use their old proprietary ringtone service, which now you can't even preview a list of what's available without spending money first (a large package of credits). This is why I rooted so very soon after purchase.

Yeah, I would have rooted my dad's phone a long time ago, if it weren't for the simple fact that it's his work phone...

He does keep asking me how to uninstall the crapps, though... BlockBuster, N4S, why does he need it?

Any thoughts on whether people favour or avoid particular carriers (or devices they carry) based on a history of how much junkware they bloat in?

I mean, if a friend tells me "don't buy device X on carrier Z because they cripple it with crapware" then I'll probably look elsewhere ... the devices themselves seem basically interchangeable and disposable these days, packed full of tech I never really use.

I really think about switching from Verizon. Its just not a big enough deal for me to put up with the hassle of porting my my number to another carrier. Verizon seems to be more locked down with more crap ware than other carriers.