how to fix minor errors from grinding and cutting metal

hi there. im not super familier with working with metal so i think i need some more seasoned guidance here.

ok heres the problems i have. while grinding some edges down the grinder touched the acctual surface of the peice (steel) and left a little mark. i know when i paint over it it will look a lil funny. is there something i can fill that in with that will stick permanantly?

while cutting my design out i have over cut by the smallest ammount. i think less then 1/16th but if i try to file it out or grind it flat its going to look funny. is there some kind of putty that i can use to fill that lil gap?

while prying something the plyers left some small dent on the surface im assumeing i can just hammer them out with a mallot or something. ideas guys?

use some spray putty, its a form of bondy type stuff, that will fill any small dents or scratches, but works like a can of paint.

I have found that typical solder works well to fill in those dings and scratches, then you can file them and sand them back down to smooth it out.

Oh, I forgot to mention something. You have to take measures to make the solder stick. One is to use rough sandpaper and alcohol to clean and rough up the surface. And as you apply the solder, the metal need to be heated. It would be much more difficult to do this with a soldering iron, easier to use a butane torch to heat the metal (doesn't need to glow red, but should be good and hot), then melt the solder into your dent. It may take a couple of tries, but once you get it the patch will be quite durable.

ah good old lead-slinging.

ill add one more thing to that idea. lead is probably the easiest to work with when its at a plastic-like state. i cant say for sure how to know except for trial and error, but if you try working with lead, you'll quickly learn when its at the plastic state.

seeming as you probably have never done that before, ill just keep it to that. there are other things you usually do when you work with lead, but you dont need to know them at this point. just fill up the little nicks and grooves, and then sand it back down until its flat.

since you'll paint it anyway I'd go with bondo or an epoxy filler. Lead requires a torch and a bunch of messing around.

well. seeing as i dont have a torch i will have to go the bondo / epoxy method i guess. so i guess i can fill the minor scratches with the bondo and sand it down. i dont know about the lil over cuts though. what is bondo like some kind of play doh kind of stuff or more liquidly?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Slug Toy

there are other things you usually do when you work with lead, but you dont need to know them at this point.

---

Apart from being aware that it can be poisonous, so use adequate ventilation.

i wouldnt worry about ventilation. id be more worried about somehow eating it. lead shouldnt vapourize when heated, unless its some sort of super-lead that can take on any state at any given time. dont worry about breathing it in, although if you get a sweet taste in your mouth, you should probably stop. i say sweet because lead is sweet, and that would mean you have somehow exposed yourself.

Quote:

---

i wouldnt worry about ventilation

---

Umm. I think Breathing in lead dust falls under Ventilation. If you sand a lead patch flat- you get lead dust in the air.

And lead does not taste sweet.
This is from the US National Library of Medicine - National Institue of Health's webpage. Link to artricle on Lead poisoning

Quote:

---

Lead is a very strong poison. When a person swallows a lead object or inhales lead dust...

---

Quote:

---

Unfortunately, you can't see, taste, or smell lead

---

Slug: Please check your facts before posting. Inaccuracies will impact the veracity of your posts.

I am a medical student currently and I would say from the statistics and case studies I have reviewed concerning lead poisoning that yes it is a serious concern when exposed as it is a veracious poison but your level of exposure in this situation would be considerably small. The vast majority of inhalation poisoning that I have seen have been from sanding lead-based paint. Now of course this risk would only be real assuming you used lead-based solder, which is becoming less frequently used do to it's contaminant properties. Most widely available solders are composed of mixtures of tin, silver, and copper. So lead poisoning is really not a viable risk factor here, however, standard precautions should always be used when sanding any materials, this includes metals, plastics, and even wood. Respirators are preferrable, but even one of those tissue masks would suffice. Enough soap boxing for me, just wanted to point out that I wasn't suggesting sanding lead and huffing the vapor, I usually sand metals wet anyway to reduce particles.

cevinzol, you may very well be right. its been a while since ive sucked on anything with lead in it. i HAVE done it though because im pretty stupid sometimes. i might be thinking of lead compounds in general because the ions might be sweet. i cant remember what it was, but i do remember it being sweet. anyways, im not too concerned about how lead tastes. it was more of a side thought than anything. im more concerned about the ventilation deal, even though its off topic a bit.

the reason i say i wouldnt worry about ventilation is because lead is pretty heavy (second heaviest stable metal, bismuth being the first). its more likely that any small particles you kick up from sanding will end up on the floor instead of in your body. and besides, its not like you're going to have your face against the metal while sanding, and im pretty sure you arent going to shake out the sand paper right in front of yourself.

im going to settle this matter definitively tomorrow then. ive got a couple chunks of lead from fishing weights. im going to take a belt sander to them tomorrow in a closed space and ill let you know if i see any dust in the air. of course, dont try it at home for yourself. think of this as an unofficial mythbusters episode, which is being done for the greater good. if i turn out to be wrong in any of this, you have written permission to drive to my house and beat me with whatever object strikes your fancy.

HaHaHa....That's takin one for the team! I assume you plan to wear a respirator? Well, if you're going to do it AMA... You should lay large, clean, white sheets of paper on the floor around you to measure how far the particles travel before hitting the ground, that will give you an idea of how well they travel in the air. And to best visualize the particles, lights off with some bright narrow-field lamps beaming across your work area will help. Also hanging long strips of wet white paper from the ceiling down to the level of the sander can show how high the particles had risen. I'm all for scientific endeavors, and I think you understand the risks involved. My only recommendation is protect your airways and eyes, any open cuts, and shower immediately afterward with a strong detergent to remove all particulate lead. You are not likely to suffer a major exposure, but even tiny amounts can find their way into your blood stream through the mouth especially and leave permanent lead collections which damage the brain, peripheral nerves, kidneys, among others. Of course advice is not to proceed, but if you're going to do it, do it safe please.

Quote:

---

lead is pretty heavy (second heaviest stable metal, bismuth being the first).

---

I'm afraid you've confused Atomic Weight on the periodic table with density. They are not the same.
Osmium (Atomic Weight= 190.2) is actually the heaviest stable element.
Nearly twice as heavy a Lead (AW= 207.19).

Osmium: 22,610 KG/cubic meter
Gold : 19,300 KG/cubic meter
Lead : 11,340 KG/cubic meter
Bismuth: 9,780 KG/cubic meter

Sorry, I won't de-rail this thread any further.

ok ive finished my rediculous tests about airborne lead hazards. what a pain that was.

first, ill get one thing out of the way. yes, i was referring to atomic weight, and not density. i cant really tell you why, but for some reason i dont think density will play an important role at such small particulate sizes, and i believe any metal of similar atomic weight will behave similarly. i may understand chemistry better than the average person, but im not into atomic stuff, so im going on gut feeling.

ok, now to my test results. i actually did follow your idea, jdbnsn. i had some white construction paper laid out, and i had some fly paper on hand, so i hung some of that around the area. i used a belt sander with various grit sand papers between 200 and 800, and a palm sander with 2000 grit, and also a single cut and double cut file. i heated and froze the metals to see if that had any effect (although highly improbable). i also did more than just lead, so that we may know even more about this issue. i did lead, steel, aluminum, copper, tin, zinc, nickel, silver, gold, cobalt, manganese, bismuth, tungsten, and magnesium. dont ask why or how i have all that, i just do. the results are in point form. i checked after i was done with each metal, so its accurate about the metal, but not really about the specific situation. i checked the fly paper with a jeweler's 10X magnifier, and i averaged the distance any particulate travelled. i also used a brand new mask for each metal, and examined each one with the 10X magnifier as well.

-lead- particles scattered about 1 inch around work area, no visible dust, and nothing on fly paper, nothing on mask
-steel- particles scattered about 1.25 inches around area, no visible dust, nothing on fly paper, nothing on mask
-aluminum- particles scattered about 3 inches around area, fine visible particles, fine dust caught on fly paper about 1.5 feet above area, small amount of powder on mask
-copper- particles scattered about 1 inch around area, no visible dust, nothing on fly paper, nothing on mask
-tin- particles scattered about 2.5 inches around area, fine visible particles, fine dust on fly paper about 1.34 feet about area, very small amount of powder of mask
-zinc- particles scattered about 1.75 inches around area, no visible dust, very fine dust on fly paper about .67 feet above area, very small amount of powder on mask
-nickel- particles scattered about 1.25 inches around area, no visible dust, nothing on fly paper, nothing on mask
-silver- particles scattered about 1 inch around area, no visible dust, nothing on fly paper, nothing on mask
-gold- particles scattered about 1 inch around area, no visible dust, nothing on fly paper, nothing on mask
-cobalt- particles scattered about 1.25 inches around area, no visible dust, nothing on fly paper, mothing on mask
-manganese- particles scattered about 1 inch around area, no visible dust, nothing on fly paper, nothing on mask
-bismuth- particles scattered about 1 inch around area, no visible dust, nothing on fly paper, nothing on mask
-tungsten- particles scattered about 1 inch around area, no visible dust, nothing on fly paper, nothing on mask
-magnesium- particles scattered about 1.5 inches around area, fine visible particles, fine dust on fly paper about 1.67 feet above area, small amount on mask

so there you have it. a lot of stuff happening there. it actually is about what i expected, not the actual distances, but the relative distances.

so i want to wrap this thing up quick. ill conclude by saying it looks like its more likely you should worry about getting alzheimers from the aluminum in the air. lead just doesnt seem to travel. a couple other metals travel through the air, but im pretty sure they're safe.

the original question was answered here, so at least we got something meaningful out of this thread. i dont really know if what ive done is meaningful or not to tell the truth. it sure was a morning spent in the name of science/stupidity!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cannibal23

well. seeing as i dont have a torch i will have to go the bondo / epoxy method i guess. so i guess i can fill the minor scratches with the bondo and sand it down. i dont know about the lil over cuts though. what is bondo like some kind of play doh kind of stuff or more liquidly?

---

As long as your useing the Bond to "fill" a low spot it doesn't matter if it's a dent or a cut. Just apply the bondo to the area (give it about a 1"-2" over lap on all side, this is a good practice but not possible every where so just wing it), let the bondo dry, and sand it flush. I'll be doing allot of bondo work on metal again soon, when I do I'll get some good pics up in my R2 work log to help explain this better. If you get pin holes (little trapped air bubles that when you sand down to them they leave little divots or bowls in the filled area) in the bondo or you think the scratch is to small for bondo. Pick up some auto body Glaze (made by bondo here in the usa). It's a bit thinner like toothpaste, but you don't want to use it for big stuff because it shrinks allot more then bondo. You can spread the bondo and glaze with a plastic spreader or old beussness cards (the co I work for before, changed it's name 3 times in the 5 yrs I worked there so I have a few "Extras" laying around :) ) Just make sure you have it a little thicker then the metal or plastic peice, because your going to sand down to it. If the area needs allot of fill remember that sevral thinner coats dry faster and have a lesser chance of craking or pinholeing.

There's been a allot of talk here about the dangers of lead. But You need to under stand that Bondo is way more dangerous! The Fumes kill brain cells quickly, so do your self a favor and get a good resperator (not those cheapy paper things...they are no good against fumes they only on particles!) You can pick them up for about $20 from Harbor freight, this seems to be the cheapest place to get them. But if you can't wait for them to be shipped (assuming you don't have a local HF) you can get them at your local Hardware (Home despot, and Lowes carry them) just be ready to spend more (up to and over $40, from what other's have stated here @ TBCS). The number one thing is be safe!


If you have any more Q's on how to fill the dents, scratches, etc just ask.

Oh, Bondo is cream to pinkish color when dried so you can only do this if your going to paint over it. If you want bare metal, you'll have to pound the dents out and sand everything smooth.

Good Luck,
Crazybillybob

thanks for the detaild info. i think i will use that paste stuff for the smaller nicks and scratches. seems like it will be esier to work with and the cratches and nicks arent really huge. the over cuts however i found some wicked stuff to use on them. its an epoxy putty. there is 2 parts to it but its all in one stick. the outer layers are one part and the inner core is another part (diffrent colors naturally) so you sqush it togeather and press it into any holes cracks miss drills or whatever that needs filling. the wicked part now is that this stuff can be sanded drilled machined you can even tap this stuff. so there is a good product for some rookies i guess. if you drill the wrong spot you can just fill it in with this and redrill. even if you used the wrong sized bit and need to redrill the same hole you just fill it in wait for it to cure and drill again like nothing ever happend. product details are as follows

Magic Bond epoxy putty, made by Devcon

This thread kills me, I laughed so hard when I read this last post, it is absolutely hilarious! We had a simple question, which errupted into a debate over products and safety to the periodic table of elements and even a scientific (actually fairly well conducted) study, with advice ranging from novice to masters. And in the end, he walked down to the hardware store, and found a better solution. I love the creative process!!!

This thread is getting stickied for sure.

sorry :-( didnt want to waste anyones time. i just figured that you guys were too busy argueing with eachother to help me with my questions. i appreciate the effort you guys went through to find out what metal is more dense. this was very interesting information.

hey, we were the ones wasting time, but it was hopefully for a good cause... or something along those lines.

yes i believe so. eventually someone will happen accross this post and find exactly what they are looing for.

Who said that time was a waste? We got a highly entertaining and educational thread out of the deal!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cannibal23

sorry :-( didnt want to waste anyones time. i just figured that you guys were too busy argueing with eachother to help me with my questions. i appreciate the effort you guys went through to find out what metal is more dense. this was very interesting information.

---

Not at all, you didn't waste anyone's time. You asked a great question which got people so interested that this whole thread resulted. And there's nothing wrong with a healthy debate, everyone here is still friends. I just thought that it was funny that you asked the question, and while everyone else got sidetracked, you solved it on your own!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cannibal23

yes i believe so. eventually someone will happen accross this post and find exactly what they are looing for.

---

I can imagine it now. Someone googling for the atomic weight of unobtanium finds this thread in a computer modders' forum.. wtf? :rolleyes:

And there was me thinking someone made up Unobtanium...the mythical element no-one can obtain, the quest goes on...

Souns like something you'd hear Proffessor Frink talkin about on the Simpsons.

Cool thread though.

Drew

Unobtanium

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cannibal23

thanks for the detaild info. i think i will use that paste stuff for the smaller nicks and scratches. seems like it will be esier to work with and the cratches and nicks arent really huge. the over cuts however i found some wicked stuff to use on them. its an epoxy putty. there is 2 parts to it but its all in one stick.
--snip--
Magic Bond epoxy putty, made by Devcon

---

Ya, that was the stuff I was going to mention. It's great stuff, but, read the safety info on the tube! I think it contains BPA or some other nasty substance. (I can't find my tube atm...) I used to work it with my fingers before I found this out, now I only touch it with gloves on. As for gloves, you can buy a box of blue nitrile (non-latex) gloves at your local Costco/Price Club for under $5. They're not really thick, but they'll keep junk off your hands.

That being said, Cannibal is right, it's great stuff. You mix the two part stuff by mushing it together and apply it to the area to fill. You can even apply it under water. After it cures you can file it, drill, tap, machine, etc do whatever to it.