Salvia

Wow, I didn't realize how out of touch I was. We had a guest lecture at the hospital recently who was an ER physician and his talk was about legally abused OTC drugs. I did know about some of them, like the cough suppressants and such but there were some I've never heard of. Salvia was one of them. Apparently, it's legal in most states still and grown everywhere. It's even a sold as a common garden flower (which it actually is) but you can buy preparations in the mail and in certain shops to smoke, eat, or drink. Evidently, this stuff is wicked strong. At his program in Chicago some researchers were trying to develop a blood test that would show the presence of the drug in the system so the asked 10 seasoned drug users to voluntarily smoke it and have their blood drawn. After 2 min, the project was scrapped because the volunteers were deemed "unsafe to approach with a sharp object". All 10 of them (including hardcore heroin, meth, LSD, etc.. users) stated that they would never be interested in trying it again. The drug supposedly causes an "out of body experience" which leads to complete dissociation of cause and effect. In one case of a patient he had in Chicago who had ingested some of the longer acting stuff, the kid had literally chewed through the muscles in a wrist-band pattern around his left arm....to the bone....there were bite-marks in the bone! Beware!

i personally have tried salvia, and wow, for about 30 minutes (which is about the duration of its hallucinogenic effects), you are in a whole different place and time. its pretty intense.

I def. wouldnt do it again. not without some hardcore meditation and safe-proofing of the house. gotta be in a perfect mindset for something like that.

Erowid.org has some more info including user experiences and description of its effects on the body. interesting read.

I HIGHLY wouldnt recommend it to anyone. lol

the cough suppressant is DXM... u can refine it outa cough syrup... or like most junkies... just chug the bottle...i live in brampton... the crackheads in my buildin will do anything cheap

and salvia is like any other hallucinogenic drug.... mindset b4 is key... or u might be stuck with a "****ty buzz"
pretty dumb if u ask me..

http://cpj.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/44/7/565
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dextromethorphan
whats worse is people using animal drugs...

I'm so glad I never got mixed up in any of this crap.

ditto - got spiked once, found the guy and erm, well, encouraged him quite firmly not to do it again - that's about my only real experience with anything stronger than weed - and my weed experience extends to a total one time too - just not my thing.

I've never tried it, and though I did want to, I wont. I'm way too addictive.. so why bother trying something that I might want to do over, and over, and over, and over...

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Originally Posted by Luke122

so why bother trying something that I might want to do over, and over, and over, and over...

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There's a huge difference between chemical addiction and process addiction...
Chemical addiction is when the body craves a chemical such as nicotine.
Examples: smoking, various drugs (not all), alcohol, etc.
And process addiction is when someone can't stop gambling, eating, shopping, etc. It's psychological and not a physical dependency. I'll never understand how this happens, and I don't believe there is an excuse for it. I would guess that people suffering from this kind of addiction have only convinced themselves that they are addicted as there is no chemical dependency.
Examples: gambling, various drugs (including weed and salvia), WoW<--lol

I wouldn't advocate the use of all drugs; but a lot of them are considered 'bad' (lol) because there are idiots in the world that are irresponsible. I would advocate researching the topic for yourselves and making your own decisions. Not all drugs are dangerous or addictive and forget everything that D.A.R.E. or similar groups say. They are one extreme end of the spectrum and your local drug dealer is at the other extreme. You should strive to be the educated person in the middle of the spectrum.

Now, specifically on the topic of salvia, I have personally witnessed a few people trip on it but wasn't able to experiment myself. It was in a controlled setting and only one person tripped at a time so the other two could keep them safe if the need arose. (It did not.) They spent about 15 minutes staring into space, at their hands, into a mirror, and at the rest of us. Their pupils were a bit dilated and they were pretty unresponsive just like that video, but they didn't try to move around. They all enjoyed it and had no side effects. Salvia is legal for the time being, so if anyone wants to try it your time is limited. I would highly recommend doing your homework so you know what to expect, a controlled setting such as what I described and to be in a calm, pleasant mood before tripping.

Most importantly, be responsible! I just can't believe the things some people do...they deserve exactly what they get. You are the only one responsible for your actions at the end of the day.

After 2 min, the project was scrapped because the volunteers were deemed "unsafe to approach with a sharp object".

And this was probably the researcher's fault. Like most other drugs that cause an out of body experience or alter the mind, having a sober sitter is key when doing them. I have personally done salvia, and I probably would again if I ever feel like it, and I had a sober sitter(which I ended up not needing but it was a good thing he was there.) When I did it there were also a few others there that did it(not all at once), some of them seasoned users and some of them it was their first one, and not a single person had an adverse reaction, and none of them were "unsafe to approach with a sharp object." It's not the salvia that makes people go crazy when they use, it's the people's mindset or frame of mind while using it.

Now I'm not saying that every trip is great. I've seen a guy go crazy on shrooms before, and when I say crazy I mean bat**** loco, paranoid trying get the people who were trying to "get him". And the main problem with him was he was off by himself doing them, and only came near the other people when he started tripping. If he had done them with someone to watch him it would never have happened.

I am in no way advocating drug use, but I hate when people are bashing something because of some bad incidents. Many drugs, certified prescription ones, have various harmful side effect, and many can cause some pretty bad **** to happen, but you don't hear people out to ban them, or demonize them.

Like I said, I'm not advocating their use, I quit using just about anything besides alcohol. But I've had experience with most of them, and I hate it when people decide what it's all about with a "test" or two, without looking at other variables, other sides of the story.

Point of story, salvia is not as bad a drug as others like heroin, crack, or meth, I actually found it quite enjoyable.(doing it again is a question of how bored I am, its availablility, and if anyone wants to come on with) Yes, people can get crazy but only when they; don't know what they're doing, have the wrong mindset, don't have anyone with them, just like any other drug.

/end rant

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Originally Posted by SgtM

I'm so glad I never got mixed up in any of this crap.

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I'm with Rick on this one.

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And this was probably the researcher's fault. Like most other drugs that cause an out of body experience or alter the mind, having a sober sitter is key when doing them.

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This is not all that untrue. Part of the problem as I understand it is that the concentration of any given preparation cannot be reliably confirmed. Nobody really knows how much they are taking because there isn't much "experience in the field".

I tried salvia a couple of times and apparently I'm one of the 2% that are not effected by it. My buddy just kinda sat there in his own world. How anyone could be so effected by it that they chew off their flesh is beyond me although I can see that being done with DXM. 30 Robitussin ~ the equivalent of PCP.

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Originally Posted by gramatton

I am in no way advocating drug use, but I hate when people are bashing something because of some bad incidents. Many drugs, certified prescription ones, have various harmful side effect, and many can cause some pretty bad **** to happen, but you don't hear people out to ban them, or demonize them.

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You hear mostly good things about legal drugs (prescription drugs) because they serve a greater purpose. They either cure, treat or prevent and illness, ease or numb the effects of pain, and restore chemical imbalances in the brain. The bad side effects are outweighed by the good that the legal drugs cause.

Illegal drugs on the other hand cause more harm than they do good. Acid users can have flashbacks tens of years after their last trip, pot users can eventually suffer memory loss, Crack, Heroine, meth etc are all multiple bad things. They all server no good purpose other than to make the user high.

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Originally Posted by Oneslowz28

I'm with Rick on this one.

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+1.



I've had friends who have tried salvia divinorum, they described their experiences as "it's like living my entire life up to this point in the past fifteen minutes" or "i was stuck in a box for a half hour, and could not get out".

Seems like it might induce an interesting experience, but I'm not going to put myself at risk of a bad experience or physical injury or whatnot just for some crazy hallucinations. Not really my kinda thing.

But then again, it's pretty rare to hear of me even having a cigarette or drink, so...

Drug use is one of the things I hold near to me. Not becasue of use but of effect. I lost quite a few people in my life because of drugs. Both of non-prescription abuse and prescription abuse. I am not condoning the use of it at all but if you do treat it like everything else. Do it responsibly. I have heard of this but never had a chance to deal with it first hand. But from what I understand the effect is one of two ways. Its either wide open or you dont get jack. Another one that is similar in effect is jimson weed(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datura_stramonium). If mixed right makes strong halucinations, mixed wrong you might as well drink gas spiked with bleach and fertlizer. I had 5 friends sit down and try it on a saturday afternoon. The following Tuesday I was there to watch 3 of them buried. After that I got away from everything. Worst thing I have done since then is drink some whiskey and that is not that often. Like everyone has said though treat everything in life like a gun or snake. respect and responibility

I hate to be a party pooper but Jon started this thread to warn of the dangers of taking this should be illegal drug. The scientific discussion on why the experiment was flawed and the SCIENTIFIC discussion on how to properly conduct the experiment is welcome. What is NOT welcome is discussing ways to safely use a dangerous drug or drugs both legal and illegal for recreational purposes. Please keep this discussion out of the gray area or I will lock it down.

I was talking about prescription drugs as being taken responsible as well as things in mothernature. I dont condone drug use at all from what I've seen in my life. Yes the experiment was flawed, yes the drug should be made illegal. Some of the comments I have seen about the other things people are using as drugs or trying look to be warnings.end of story.sorry I sound so rough but I agree with oneslowz28 this could get out of hand if not careful.

its funny because in actuality salvia is illegal when smoked in most states. but people get around this by selling it as "incense" not a product to be smoked.

pot can lead to?...... **stares blankly** :) oh yeah... memory loss... :)

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Originally Posted by Oneslowz28

I hate to be a party pooper but Jon started this thread to warn of the dangers of taking this should be illegal drug. The scientific discussion on why the experiment was flawed and the SCIENTIFIC discussion on how to properly conduct the experiment is welcome. What is NOT welcome is discussing ways to safely use a dangerous drug or drugs both legal and illegal for recreational purposes. Please keep this discussion out of the gray area or I will lock it down.

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I don't want to sound argumentative (even though this probably will anyway) and I understand the rules of the forum, but I don't think anything illegal was discussed. And just because something is illegal doesn't mean it's actually bad or dangerous. This page is a Google search for 'ridiculous laws'...have fun. Law makers don't always do their homework before passing laws, they just listen to what the lobbyist that buys them the most dinners says.

And, drugs are drugs. Whether legal, illegal, natural, chemical, OTC, or prescription, they all chemically alter our body. Someone made the point that 'legal drugs' are legal because they have beneficial effects...how do we know 'illegal drugs' don't as well? They were, for the most part, never studied. It's illegal to study illegal substances...so you won't find any peer reviewed studies on the potential benefits of heroin. The law could very well be holding back the cure for HIV/AIDS, cancer, or just about any other uncured ailment. But I'm sure the lawmakers know everything there is to know about all drugs...and everything else for that matter.

And to stay along the lines of the OP topic, I'm sure the salvia experiment could have been flawed on many levels. Since we don't know anything about the test subjects, dosages, or other variables we can't very well arrive at any conclusion. But keep in mind that a bottle of aspirin or pain-killers can be more deadly than many so-called 'bad' drugs.

But, if the administration says don't discuss it, don't discuss it.

I also have to agree with everybody else who said that the stuff is bad, and it's not a good idea to try it.

Now now folks, just a friendly chit chat about some new info I learned the other day. No need for a debate. Obviously, promoting illegal substances is forbidden on TBCS but as far as I know salvia is not yet a schedule 1 drug in any other state than Illinois. But I expect that will change. As for the "experiment", it wasn't really a scientific study per se rather than just an attempt to isolate a way to test for the drug's presence. There is practically no evidence based research salvia so far, or at least none that I know of. How bad it is for people is mostly speculative and based on anecdotes of "bad trips" but I don't think anyone really knows just how dangerous it is yet.

Definitely friendly. I may be ranting a bit but I'm not going to flat out argue over anything here.

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Originally Posted by jdbnsn

How bad it is for people is mostly speculative and based on anecdotes of "bad trips" but I don't think anyone really knows just how dangerous it is yet.

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That right there is what frustrates me. There haven't been any studies on it and there never will because the mob wants it banned before they know anything about it. 'It's too dangerous! What about the kids! Let's imprison anyone that doesn't think like we do!' What ever happened to logic and reasoning skills?

Despite whatever tone may be associated with what I have written by the reader, I'm not angry or argumentative. I'm just saying that it's wrong to close our eyes to things before we understand them. And still, while the discussion here went all the way up to the border of the aforementioned 'gray area', we only looked in and never entered. :D

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Originally Posted by mDust

That right there is what frustrates me. There haven't been any studies on it and there never will because the mob wants it banned before they know anything about it. 'It's too dangerous! What about the kids! Let's imprison anyone that doesn't think like we do!' What ever happened to logic and reasoning skills?

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Oh I wouldn't say that exactly, it remains to be seen whether any good studies get done. There haven't been any yet largely because people aren't quite sure what to investigate and just measuring the mental status changes isn't that useful. Most of the health implications will likely rise from retrospective statistics when long term use effects are available in the distant future.