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Thread: My Unnamed Theoretical Project

  1. #41
    Anodized. Again. Konrad's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Unnamed Theoretical Project

    You might be able to buy something from your local electrical utility company - or from their supplier. They use these fluids (by the barrel full) to immersion-cool high power transformers and such stuff; Midel is one (of many) commercial products engineered for that application. Flourinert is more of an hauteur de machine cooling fluid designed for elite supercomputing applications, stupidly overinflated price like anything else 3M branded.

    Midel is about $8/gallon, I think. How much does purified veggy oil cost?
    My mind says Technic, but my body says Duplo.

  2. #42
    One Eye, Sixteen Cores. Kayin's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Unnamed Theoretical Project

    Food grade mineral oil comes in below that.

    Also, check and see if Armari is still doing reclaimed fluorinert. I had a sample of it once, but it evaporates too quickly for my taste.

    Midel 7131 is always a possibility, but isn't that stuff green too?
    Project:Mithril, sponsored by Petra's Tech Shop and Sidewinder Computers-MOTM Nominee October '08




  3. #43
    Anodized. Again. Konrad's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Unnamed Theoretical Project

    Kind of a very slight aqua-green tinge. Like a very watered down green tea. It has less green than pure water has blue. The pictures you see online tend to emphasize and exaggerate the "aquarium" effect, it's nowhere near that prominent but yeah there's still a very slight little green tinge. Colour seems to remain constant regardless of age or temperature. A few coloured CCF or LED lights easily conceal the tinge; a bluish/white light makes Midel seem "crystal clear" - most people will naturally assume the nearly-imperceptible colour tint is actually the glass instead of the fluid.

    You don't even have to clean the parts afterward. Midel evaporates almost instantly (sort of like isopropyl) and leaves no film or residue or green stains or anything, but it will leave easily removed "streaks" if you force it off with compressed air. It doesn't stain paper labels green, but sometimes it blurs or lifts the inks - probably best to remove or laminate all paper. You can even immerse your PSU in midel - so they say - but I haven't had the balls to try it. You cannot immerse magnetic or optical drives and don't want to get midel into I/O connectors. You also can't immerse radio antennae - as a dielectric fluid it essentially makes your computer impervious to EMI/RFI. (Though intense radio energy will heat the fluid up, like water in a microwave oven; this isn't a real-world problem.)

    It seems immune to algae, it doesn't spoil when exposed to open air (although it does slowly evaporate), it has a slight but distinctive sharp odour sort of like a cleaning agent, it's not acidic or corrosive, I haven't seen any reaction with any plastics or adhesives, but like any other fluid it can soak into and swell/deform/explode porous solids (like particle board or cheap 1970s-style "brown" PCBs - or improperly sealed electrolytic caps!).

    I'm not a Midel expert - these are just my observations (answers to my own questions) from playing with midel a little bit. I've only had about 3-4 gallons of the stuff in my whole life, never immersed a full PC. I know guys who claim that Midel isn't as good as electrical oils, but I don't know why they say that.
    My mind says Technic, but my body says Duplo.

  4. #44
    One Eye, Sixteen Cores. Kayin's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Unnamed Theoretical Project

    Cap issues. Midel will destroy non solid caps over time, the real dielectrics won't.
    Project:Mithril, sponsored by Petra's Tech Shop and Sidewinder Computers-MOTM Nominee October '08




  5. #45
    Mentally Underclocked mDust's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Unnamed Theoretical Project

    Quote Originally Posted by Kayin View Post
    Cap issues. Midel will destroy non solid caps over time, the real dielectrics won't.
    Thanks for that warning. Modding-god knows I've had enough problems with caps in the past.

    +rep to the both of you for the suggestions and information.
    I'll procrastinate tomorrow.

  6. #46
    Anodized. Again. Konrad's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Unnamed Theoretical Project

    By "non-solid" do you basically just mean electrolytics? (And paper caps, which are long obsolete. And air-trimming caps which obviously won't work properly without air.)

    I can't see any problems with ceramic, glass, poly-synthetic, tantalum, mica, etc types of caps. Assuming the midel (or other fluid) doesn't react as a solvent/corrosive for the material in question.

    On the plus side, these components would all be fully immersed in a fluid which acts as a much better thermal conductor than air.

    I'm a little curious how dielectric fluids work with transformers (inductors). Inductors "store" electrical energy in magnetic fields, but a dielectric fluid medium would probably severly inhibit magnetic propagation (at least in comparison with air). I would guess this changes the electrical parameters of the inductor, ie: alters the circuit. Wouldn't this reduce capabilities or efficiencies (or safety margins) for things like transformers (and PSUs which use them)?

    lol, I'll personally stick with using Midel in pipes. Full immersion is just not really my thing, makes the equipment too heavy and expensive.
    My mind says Technic, but my body says Duplo.

  7. #47
    One Eye, Sixteen Cores. Kayin's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Unnamed Theoretical Project

    Yeah, basically just electrolytics.
    Project:Mithril, sponsored by Petra's Tech Shop and Sidewinder Computers-MOTM Nominee October '08




  8. #48

    Default Re: My Unnamed Theoretical Project

    Gotta say I just joined and found your stuff very fascinating
    and could probably go on all day talking about it but you keep saying a lack of money is preventing you from building this.

    How much would it cost to build from scratch or use a fish tank instead, filling with mineral oil vs other types of oil?

    Just another thought, you should look into UV reacting pigment/dye that you can put in the oil to work with so you can make the oil glow like a nuclear reactor or some type of silver dye for the water at the bottom to work with the mirrored finish you seem to be going with!

  9. #49
    Mentally Underclocked mDust's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Unnamed Theoretical Project

    Quote Originally Posted by Techno_Savage View Post
    Gotta say I just joined and found your stuff very fascinating
    and could probably go on all day talking about it but you keep saying a lack of money is preventing you from building this.

    How much would it cost to build from scratch or use a fish tank instead, filling with mineral oil vs other types of oil?

    Just another thought, you should look into UV reacting pigment/dye that you can put in the oil to work with so you can make the oil glow like a nuclear reactor or some type of silver dye for the water at the bottom to work with the mirrored finish you seem to be going with!
    /wave
    Welcome to TBCS.

    I need a workspace as well as money to start this project. I can't...well, shouldn't...use power tools in my apartment. Or should I? Submerged PC for the greater good > annoyed neighbors and noise complaints?

    I don't like the way a fish tank would look. Also, my latest planned adventures require clear insulation...such as a vacuum chamber. And honestly, the cost of a fish tank + radiators + half a dozen fans + a pump ~ the cost of raw materials to build my own tank + a cheapo A/C unit.

    The dyed oil would look cool, however, the dye would have to be non-conductive as well. I'm not sure I could find something like that.

    I'll just keep redesigning this project until I find a suitable workshop...then I'll redesign it one more time.
    I'll procrastinate tomorrow.

  10. #50
    Will YOU be ready when the zombies rise? x88x's Avatar
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    Default Re: My Unnamed Theoretical Project

    For power tools in the apartment, I've found that working in the bathroom works well for me. ...just don't do it at, like, 3am. Of course, my case is helped by the building being older and all-brick construction...and having a wiring closet for a neighbor.
    That we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others, we should be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours, and this we should do freely and generously.
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