Magnetic Generators? Green Energy?

[burntheland]

I'm getting some jigs machined to make one of these to see what happens. Has anyone else tried this? Small or large scale? How much energy did it produce? Does it really run non-stop? Or do you have to "bump" it occasionally? I think this is a good discussion topic. Thoughts?

[Technochicken]

What exactly do you mean by a magnetic generator? Almost all mechanical generators use magnets and coils to generate electricity. The simplest way to create a small generator is to hook up the leads of a motor to what you want to power, and spin the shaft. Also, there is no way you could have something running non-stop without energy going into it. Perpetual motion on earth is not possible.

[burntheland]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjRoEQVF160

Here is one video and there are thousands more out there. It uses the concept of a stationary magnet attracting and repelling the poles of other magnets attached to a plate/wheel. This causes the wheel to spin. Attach a shaft, run it through a stator, and you have DC. My plan is to incorporate a battery to store the energy and use the generator on the same concept as a alternator in a car. Then run leads from the battery to an AC converter. I've done my fair share of research on this and I'm confident it will work. I just wanted to see everyone else's thoughts on the matter. These are even used in industrial environments today! It really kind of makes me angry when I think about how this isn't common knowledge to the public and that we're not running the world on technology like this.

[x88x]

Sorry, it won't work. Yes, in a frictionless environment that column will continue to spin forever (once pushed), but a) there's no such thing outside of a magnetically suspended shaft in a vacuum, and b) as soon as you attach the thing to a coil to try and generate electricity it'll stop moving (because you introduced an opposing force).

1st Law of Thermodynamics:
Energy can neither be created nor destroyed.
In any isolated system, the total energy remains the same.

2nd Law of Thermodynamics:
The entropy of an isolated macroscopic system never decreases.

Basically, you cannot create energy out of nothing, which is what that video is claiming.

People have been claiming to have made perpetual motion and free energy machines for millenia, and every single one of them has been proven wrong.

By all means though, try it. That's what Science is; formulating and testing hypotheses. If you think it'll work, try it and find out. Just don't be too surprised when it doesn't.

[knowledgegranted]

Actually x88x you are completely wrong. This theory can work, we just don't have the findings yet for it to work. In the universe there are such things called single pole magnets. Physics + Math suggests that they are very true. I believe there is a science channel thing on magnets if you want to catch it.

For this new design to work, only using single pole magnets you would need two discs to oppose each other. One with South magnets, one with North magnets. Oh, btw these are called monopoles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_monopole



Building something like this is obviously beyond my knowledge, an AP physics high school class just isn't going to cut it.

[burntheland]

If it doesn't work I won't be sore about it at all. It's one of those projects where my friend comes over with a case of beer and we mess around in the shop for a few hours. Besides....all I want to do is prove it works or doesn't work. And the root word of disprove is.......prove.
So either way it's success.

But as far as the scientific process I can always see holes in it...which is what makes it such a fascinating experiment.


1st Law of Thermodynamics:
Energy can neither be created nor destroyed.
In any isolated system, the total energy remains the same.

Energy being created nor destroyed....I agree. But there's potential energy there. If you lay a nail down on the table. And I lay a magnet next to it, it will attract the nail and cause it to move across the table. The movement of the nail is energy at work...but what had to happen? I had to put the magnet next to it. So essentially I'm not creating any energy. I'm using positioning (energy from me moving the magnet) to act on the physical properties of the magnet (which is essentially indefinite potential energy i.e. magnetism)

Now, with that in mind....Let's say that I have a more powerful magnet of the same mass and dimensions...but I can place it further away from the nail on the table. The nail moves further. This displays more energy than the initial test and cost us the exact same amount of "work" (energy cost for desired outcome.)

That being said we can deduce that the same amount of initial energy in both experiments yielded separate amounts energy output. One greater than the other.

For that matter if you have a magnet sitting on a table in front of you with a paperclip stuck to it that is not moving....this is a perfect example of lasting energy with little to no energy input. sure, you had to put the paperclip on the magnet....but i'll wager that paperclip is going to stay there for more than a day or two if it remains untouched. The attraction (energy) holds it there stationary.

So I can see where all of this is hypothetically feasible. And where the "laws" of science may have not totally covered this amendment. Just like anything else that has "laws" it is always subject to change with advances in technology and socio-economic strides. examples? The Bible? The Constitution? The thought that the Earth was flat? That we were the center of the universe? Being on Earth made up the only intelligent species in existence? You can't run cars off of water? I mean they are about to engineer a black hole.....I think just about anything is possible. BUT i'm not saying that this will undoubtedly work. Only that I think it's more than reasonable to think that it may very well work.


2nd Law of Thermodynamics:
The entropy of an isolated macroscopic system never decreases.

and i dont know what entropy is....
:p

so there.

haha

[burntheland]

Physics + Math suggests that they are very true. I believe there is a science channel thing on magnets if you want to catch it.

Took me to long to type. That's what I'm talking about though. If you have a link to that I would love to see it.

[x88x]

Only problem with magnetic monopoles is that although they should theoretically exist, they have never been found in nature and have never been successfully manufactured.

Again I refer you to the Laws of Thermodynamics and, come to think of it, Newton's Third Law of Motion.

As always, if you think I am wrong, I welcome you to prove it. I would love for such a machine to be possible, but the fact is that it violates the basic laws on which the universe operates (at least as we understand it now).

Here's a nice compilation of data (both positive and negative) on the various Perendev devices. I'll let their actions and results speak for themselves. There is a very good reason (several, actually) why they are considered to be hoaxes.
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directo..._Pty_%28Ltd%29

Like I said, people have been claiming to have made perpetual motion and free energy devices for millenia, and every single one has been proven to be a hoax in the end.

And may I reiterate. If you think I am wrong, please, prove it. I won't get angry, I won't flame you. If you are right, then I will accept that I was wrong and go on from there, but if you are wrong, I will tell you why. That's science.

[burntheland]

Interesting link...i'll have to give it more time when I get home
For now, I'm out of work. Long drive home...here i come!

[mDust]

Hmmm...I smell an experiment. Just don't pay for plans to build it. That's pretty much a guarantee that it's just a scam. If you search hard enough, anything can be found on the internet.

I think we can be fairly certain that humans haven't discovered everything there is to be discovered. Perhaps in a few hundred years people will be looking back at this concept like we do the concepts of a round earth and a heliocentric solar system. While I do believe the laws of physics are well supported by our experiences to-date, I also believe that they will be refined in the future as our collective knowledge grows.