What constitutes an "adult" game to you? (Grown-up, not XXX)

[Kayin]

As I write, I find myself throwing in asides that reference things like breeding capacity, cougars, etc-without ever saying a foul word or anything openly crass. I am wondering, though, if it's possible to keep from losing my core audience if I keep making references and courting euphemisms. I don't write trashy stuff, but I have no problem with portraying people (and meta-people) as real, breathing, needing (and sometimes lusting) people. My problem is, what do you consider to be grown-up, and what do you consider adult? Please, cite specific games if you can-I need this information literally to advance. I'm trying as hard as I can to make this the game we wanted to play back then (grown-up, realistic somewhat story) for the people we are now, but I need the community's help. So tell me, where do YOU think it crosses the line from grown-up to trash?

[mDust]

Adult games due to sexual content: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leisure...y_%28series%29
I think you'll be fine simply referencing things. Kids aren't likely to pick up on that anyway. Especially if they are undertones and not directly part of the game-play. I would consider a gratuitously violent game an adult game before one that hinted at sexual themes.

[Kayin]

I should possibly clarify that I'm trying to create a game we adults want to play. Something that, while in a fantasy setting, isn't cheap and pandering, but showcases the game as an art form, and one that is truly enjoyable adult entertainment. Kinda like Weeds. The show was about drug dealing, but it wasn't. It was about a woman doing what she thought she had to do, and the consequences thereof. And it was about the lives those consequences touched. THAT's the kind of adult I'm shooting for. Yes, drive-bys, sex and drug use happened. But they were part of the story, and the consequences were always spelled out as best possible.

But is that what makes it adult, or what simply makes it grown-up?

[BuzzKillington]

There was this one game that I can't seem to remember the title of but basically you were undercover and you had to get into places undetected. It was very mafia/drug-lordy. You were given a silenced weapon and you had to for example, trank the delivery man, drag him somewhere unnoticeable, steal his clothes and the package then deliver the items. Once you got inside the house you could then shoot the dude that answered the door yada yada yada. It was a fun game.

Sounds like you're getting yourself into a HUGE project. Have you thought about a story line or drawn up/designed any characters?

Perhaps you could watch a few of your favorite action-dramas and try and brainstorm a mix of them?

I feel like kids/parents nowadays don't pay too much attention to game content unless it's popular to dislike... like GTA. Once one person brought it up it suddenly became every parents nightmare. I feel what really qualifies a game as adult is it's topic. Pirates of the Burning Sea was a pretty slow-paced game. It was loosely historically accurate and had a great economy system. I couldn't imagine many young kids playing it. Submarine simulators... slow, steep learning curve and overall boring but it appeals to adults.

[SXRguyinMA]

hell even the sims do it lol

[mDust]

I should possibly clarify that I'm trying to create a game we adults want to play. Something that, while in a fantasy setting, isn't cheap and pandering, but showcases the game as an art form, and one that is truly enjoyable adult entertainment. Kinda like Weeds. The show was about drug dealing, but it wasn't. It was about a woman doing what she thought she had to do, and the consequences thereof. And it was about the lives those consequences touched. THAT's the kind of adult I'm shooting for. Yes, drive-bys, sex and drug use happened. But they were part of the story, and the consequences were always spelled out as best possible.

But is that what makes it adult, or what simply makes it grown-up?

So raw, uncensored content that isn't gratuitous and stays within certain moral boundaries?..or at least shows consequences when those boundaries are crossed...

You just have to decide what those moral boundaries should be and then allow the characters to do whatever they want within and just beyond those boundaries. Rewards/consequences can be assessed depending on which side of the boundary the action belongs, and by how far.
Every action should be cause-and-effect with other characters and possibly your environment...just like real life. Do something someone likes and their attitude changes towards you for the better. Flirt with a girl in front of your jealous girlfriend...consequences! Steal from a someone(and get caught)...consequences! The game I most recently played that had incorporated this was Dragon Age: Origins. ...now that I think about it, when I play games like these, I usually find myself doing the good things. I've been brainwashed over my game playing years to do good!

And it's the ESRB that makes games adult games!
I would also accept the following answers:
-complexity...such as simulators and puzzles that kids might not have a chance in hell at figuring out.
-references that can only be understood with age/experience...or by a smart kid using google...WoW is full to the brim with such things.
-free will and the added sense of responsibility...a lot of RPGs allow you to make your own choices, resulting consequences be damned!
-some other things that I haven't thought of...

[Spawn-Inc]

There was this one game that I can't seem to remember the title of but basically you were undercover and you had to get into places undetected. It was very mafia/drug-lordy. You were given a silenced weapon and you had to for example, trank the delivery man, drag him somewhere unnoticeable, steal his clothes and the package then deliver the items. Once you got inside the house you could then shoot the dude that answered the door yada yada yada. It was a fun game.

hitman? if so yes those games were wicked! i just looked at hitman 2 for gamecube and was like wow, i remember the graphics being so much better. it's such a shame to have all these games get outdated.

[BuzzKillington]

Hitman! Yes, that was it.