Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 48

Thread: St. Matthew Island

  1. #31
    AARGH dr.walrus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Ho Chi Minh City
    Posts
    993

    Default Re: St. Matthew Island

    Quote Originally Posted by x88x View Post
    I'm going to take a leap here and say those suicides would have happened if those crops had failed regardless of whether they had been modified or not.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farmers...cides_in_India

    It's a big enough problem, it has its own Wikipedia article!

    In the initial years when farmers distress came to attract public attention it was said that indebtedness through use of Bt Cotton were the main cause for farmers suicide. Here it is important to notice that in the context of Indian history [20] the moneylender is considered to be a particularly evil person and the farmer an unwitting subject of his machinations. Moreover, in recent times there has been a considerable ideologically driven movement against the use of Bt crops. As a result the initial causes indebtedness and Bt Cotton were easily accepted to be the causes of farm suicides. More detailed research by various investigators like Raj Patel,[21] Nagraj.[17].,[22] Meeta and Rajivlochan,[23] identified a variety of causes that essentially boiled down to this: India was transforming rapidly into a primarily urban, industrial society with industry as its main source of income; the government and society had begun to be unconcerned about the condition of the countryside; moreover, a downturn in the urban economy was pushing a large number of distressed non-farmers to try their hand at cultivation; the farmer was also caught in a Scissors crisis; in the absence of any responsible counselling either from the government or society there were many farmers who did not know how to survive in the changing economy. Such stresses pushed many into a corner where suicide became an option for them [24] At least one study from the Punjab also pointed at the dramatic misuse of agricultural chemicals in farmer households in the absence of any guidance on how to correctly use these deadly chemicals and linked it to the rise in farm suicides wherever farm chemicals were in widespread use.[25]
    And: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cotton#...c_modification

    he initial introduction of GM cotton proved to be a huge success in Australia - the yields were equivalent to the no transgenic varieties and the crop used much less pesticide to produce (85% reduction).[22] The subsequent introduction of a second variety of GM cotton led to increases in GM cotton production until 95% of the Australian cotton crop was GM in 2009.[19]
    GM cotton acreage in India continues to grow at a rapid rate, increasing from 50,000 hectares in 2002 to 8.4 million hectares in 2009. The total cotton area in India was 9.6 million hectares (the largest in the world or, about 35% of world cotton area), so GM cotton was grown on 87% of the cotton area in 2009.[21] This makes India the country with the largest area of GM cotton in the world, surpassing China (3.7 million hectares in 2009). The major reasons for this increase is a combination of increased farm income ($225/ha) and a reduction in pesticide use to control the cotton bollworm.
    One must also bear the bigger picture in mind - MOST genetic modification of crops is pest resistance. This massively reduces pesticide usage. And we KNOW pesticide usage is very harmful.

  2. #32
    Will YOU be ready when the zombies rise? x88x's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    MD, USA
    Posts
    6,334

    Default Re: St. Matthew Island

    Yup, saw your post with the articles after I made that one. I wonder how many news organizations spun that story to make it sound like it was because the crops were genetically engineered that they failed...you know, instead of there not being enough water.
    That we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others, we should be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours, and this we should do freely and generously.
    --Benjamin Franklin
    TBCS 5TB Club :: coilgun :: bench PSU :: mightyMite :: Zeus :: E15 Magna EV

  3. #33
    AARGH dr.walrus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Ho Chi Minh City
    Posts
    993

    Default Re: St. Matthew Island

    Quote Originally Posted by x88x View Post
    Yup, saw your post with the articles after I made that one. I wonder how many news organizations spun that story to make it sound like it was because the crops were genetically engineered that they failed...you know, instead of there not being enough water.
    I think the farmers got infected with the suicide gene from the plants, personally!

  4. #34
    Custom Title Honors Snowman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    B F E
    Posts
    1,005

    Default Re: St. Matthew Island

    Can someone tell why because I read a few stories that stated one thing but was spun off from another it is okay to go with what seem like more personal and personal insults instead of just simply refuting what I have stated. Not once did I see where I made a mocking comment about dr. walrus but over and over again once he is done refuting what I have said it seems that he intends to undermine me on a more personal level? I posted my views on genetic modification of a food source from what I have read and seen first hand. It seems my information was misguided but I had read it in more than a few places (doesn't mean it wasn't all the same media conglomerate.) Maybe I am reading more into than what is there and by all means correct me if I am wrong.

    I still think genetic modification has far surpassed the just speeding up evolution phase and may be causing problems for us down the road( DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT GUARANTEEING IT WILL HAPPEN JUST LOOKING AT ALL POSSIBILITIES AND GIVING MY OPINION ) I do not believe in cloning and I especially have issues with the fact that the end consumer does not have to be notified of either. One of our first forrays with science and the food market was to bulk up our livestock faster and has now been attributed to child hood obesity, accellerated puberty although both of those are refuted because not enough study has been done on them. We also turned our livestock into cancer inducing materials in the 30s through 50s using an artificial estrogen which granted is hormone treatment but your still messing with the natural balance of things.
    Regedit'ed, Rooted, and Jailbroke anymore questions?
    Here’s a bumper sticker I’d like to see: “We are the proud parents of a child who’s self-esteem is sufficient that he doesn’t need us promoting his minor scholastic achievements on the back of our car.”

  5. #35
    Will YOU be ready when the zombies rise? x88x's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    MD, USA
    Posts
    6,334

    Default Re: St. Matthew Island

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowman View Post
    I especially have issues with the fact that the end consumer does not have to be notified of either.
    This I think is a problem. The consumer should be able to easily determine if a product contains genetically modified food, if they care to find out. How exactly that should be done is open for debate.


    Quote Originally Posted by Snowman View Post
    One of our first forrays with science and the food market was to bulk up our livestock faster and has now been attributed to child hood obesity
    I haven't looked at the science, but considering how many people grew up eating that same food and did not become obese, I'm gonna say there's more to it than that. ..maybe, idk, the same reasons most obese people are obese? You know, Occam's Razor and all.

    EDIT:
    Forgot to ask, why are you against cloning? Not a personal attack, I'm just curious. I promise, whatever your reasons I've heard stranger. (well, at least what I consider to be stranger)
    That we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others, we should be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours, and this we should do freely and generously.
    --Benjamin Franklin
    TBCS 5TB Club :: coilgun :: bench PSU :: mightyMite :: Zeus :: E15 Magna EV

  6. #36
    AARGH dr.walrus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Ho Chi Minh City
    Posts
    993

    Default Re: St. Matthew Island

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowman View Post
    it seems that he intends to undermine me on a more personal level? I posted my views on genetic modification of a food source from what I have read and seen first hand. It seems my information was misguided but I had read it in more than a few places (doesn't mean it wasn't all the same media conglomerate.) Maybe I am reading more into than what is there and by all means correct me if I am wrong.
    You seem to be taking this quite personally - but I haven't said anything other than about genetic modification. If complete falsehoods are posted about something I have strong feelings about, of course I will refute them and of course I won't take them seriously.

  7. #37
    Custom Title Honors Snowman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    B F E
    Posts
    1,005

    Default Re: St. Matthew Island

    Quote Originally Posted by x88x View Post
    This I think is a problem. The consumer should be able to easily determine if a product contains genetically modified food, if they care to find out. How exactly that should be done is open for debate.



    I haven't looked at the science, but considering how many people grew up eating that same food and did not become obese, I'm gonna say there's more to it than that. ..maybe, idk, the same reasons most obese people are obese? You know, Occam's Razor and all.

    EDIT:
    Forgot to ask, why are you against cloning? Not a personal attack, I'm just curious. I promise, whatever your reasons I've heard stranger. (well, at least what I consider to be stranger)
    rBGH a bovine growth hormone has been attributed to bulking up kids that have no other predisposition to be so inclined. Now there are other contributing factors but pumping the next generation full of growth hormones while they grow more sedentary doesn't sound like a great idea.

    As a breeder keeping a good strong bloodline is the main goal in keeping livestock happy. Right now when there is a plethora of good bloodlines cloning doesn't seem like a brad practice to get in to. As it proliferates however and a cloned animal is used for breeding you could lose some of your breeding stock due to the proliferation of the same bloodline. A lot of the things I point out may not be a problem for many many generations but not all of our current problems started with just our generation either.
    Regedit'ed, Rooted, and Jailbroke anymore questions?
    Here’s a bumper sticker I’d like to see: “We are the proud parents of a child who’s self-esteem is sufficient that he doesn’t need us promoting his minor scholastic achievements on the back of our car.”

  8. #38
    Custom Title Honors Snowman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    B F E
    Posts
    1,005

    Default Re: St. Matthew Island

    Quote Originally Posted by dr.walrus View Post
    This is nonsense. Absolute nonsense. You just made that up.

    No. it doesn't make any sense.
    Both of these comments sure seem as if you are trying to make what I said look foolish even though I stated the scenario was completely arbitrary and by no stretch of the imagination real. With a little creative editing you could make anyone appear however you wanted.

    Quote Originally Posted by dr.walrus View Post
    I think the farmers got infected with the suicide gene from the plants, personally!
    Your right this wasn't mocking in anyway you were just refuting fact I am sure.
    Regedit'ed, Rooted, and Jailbroke anymore questions?
    Here’s a bumper sticker I’d like to see: “We are the proud parents of a child who’s self-esteem is sufficient that he doesn’t need us promoting his minor scholastic achievements on the back of our car.”

  9. #39
    AARGH dr.walrus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Ho Chi Minh City
    Posts
    993

    Default Re: St. Matthew Island

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowman View Post
    even though I stated the scenario was completely arbitrary and by no stretch of the imagination real.

    Your right this wasn't mocking in anyway you were just refuting fact I am sure.
    I never said I wasn't having a joke about what you said! Neither of those comments were personal about you, though, I was mocking the fact that you invented an impossible scenario and seriously misappropriated some facts.

  10. #40
    Will YOU be ready when the zombies rise? x88x's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    MD, USA
    Posts
    6,334

    Default Re: St. Matthew Island

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowman View Post
    As a breeder keeping a good strong bloodline is the main goal in keeping livestock happy. Right now when there is a plethora of good bloodlines cloning doesn't seem like a brad practice to get in to. As it proliferates however and a cloned animal is used for breeding you could lose some of your breeding stock due to the proliferation of the same bloodline. A lot of the things I point out may not be a problem for many many generations but not all of our current problems started with just our generation either.
    Oh, ok. That does actually make good sense. So are you opposed to the concept of cloning in general or just the application to your field (no pun intended)? There are plenty of good applications in medicine and food manufacture. Personally, I don't see cloning ever really affecting breeders that much. In fact, it might even benefiting them. Instead of adding cloned animals to your stock, instead think of you providing the prime base material, from which 1,000 cows worth of meat could be grown. We're not quite there yet; currently, vat-grown meat tastes pretty awful, from what I hear, but imagine the possibilities!
    Last edited by x88x; 02-14-2011 at 04:12 PM. Reason: typo
    That we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others, we should be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours, and this we should do freely and generously.
    --Benjamin Franklin
    TBCS 5TB Club :: coilgun :: bench PSU :: mightyMite :: Zeus :: E15 Magna EV

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •