Intellectual Property...thoughts?

[Airbozo]

Yeah but the real problem is that is not the majority of the population, it is a minority contingent, for the most part social programs do work to help those in need, this is the same argument I see the right use in the media all the time, they take the 10% minority and call it the 90% majority and then take the 90% majority and make it out to be the 10% minority... You have to take the good with the bad but there isn't "that" much bad.

Agree with the first part of this sentence, but completely disagree with the second part. The problem is not a mere 10%, it is much much larger. I know this from first hand experience. I put the figure closer to 50/50 from what I have personally experienced and see every day.


Anyone that is against social health systems isn't justified in saying they are against them because of the freeloaders when good upstanding people are dying as a result of their beliefs, leaving families to struggle with massive debt and increasing the overall poverty level of the country... If you have to support a few freeloaders to help millions of deserving families isn't it worth it? Isn't that cost justified? Even if 50 cents out of every dollar you put into the system went to someone who didn't deserve it wouldn't the 50 cents that went to Kayin and his family be worth the cost? None of us have the millions of dollars Kayin needs, but none of us would miss 20 or 30$ out of our paychecks either and no matter where that money goes that 20 or 30$ would at least ensure someone like Kayin had a better chance... Isn't that something worth having?

While I do make an OK living (the result of hard work, dedication and not giving up), $20-30 IS a big deal to me. That is the difference between getting to work and not.

My Father has Parkinson's Disease, he was a Firefighter for over 30 years and risked his own life to save others god only knows how many times, now as a reward for putting himself in harms way he's slowly going to degenerate into what I can only say isn't a pretty picture... If it wasn't for being in Canada he would be for lack of a better word... f-cked... Why? Because Fighterfighter's don't get paid 600,000 dollars a year, they don't even make the 6 figure mark at all... It's a blue-collar job... Go talk to any of the guys who tried to help at ground zero after Sept. 11th who now have heart conditions and respiratory ailments and coincidentally also don't have proper health-care how they feel about facing a slow lingering death because helping them might help a few "freeloaders"... The arguments against socialized health-care are ALL invalid, flawed or not, being against any system that could help these people is just morally wrong.

P.S. I'm not saying anything directly about you, your statements or your beliefs because I honestly don't know what your stance on the whole thing is, I'm just replying to certain notions you put forth.

My neighbor is a firefighter at the beginning stage of his career and makes six figures including OT. He also has a very good pension system and will have good medical when he retires. He does not live in Canada and will have better medical than any social program could provide.

I am not saying that I am against the system and again we have gotten WAY off topic here. I want the system to be fixed and I do NOT believe that the proposed changes will fix it. I do however believe that it is a step in the right direction. At least something is being done.


Again, back to the topic at hand, Someone has to pay for the development of IP. It is not free. Should those that fund research just have to write it off "For the good of humanity"? Who does make the money then?

I also think the time line needs to be looked at. Shorten it to something more feasible. This would still allow the company that got the patent to have a substantial head start into any R&D before other companies were allowed to use the IP.

[Airbozo]

Wall Street?

LOL!

[RogueOpportunist]

While there are always exceptions, the average salary of a firefighter in the U.S. is in the 30,000$ to 75,000$ range depending on area, if you know someone "starting" at 100k+ they are an officer and are not representing the national average, using one exceptional example as a means to try and discredit average national statistics doesn't help anything... The "I know a guy who knows a guy so you're wrong" logic never has any actual statistical fact to back it up and believing that sort of rhetoric is why the American populace is so divided when they should be unified against those who are taking their liberties in the name of profit by trying to convince them that "that guy" is the national average and that individuals are only poor temporarily, eventually you will become rich like everyone else in the country... So long as you play by their rules and put them in power.

I know you likely didn't mean it to sound like it did but a basic N.Y. Firefighter makes a littler over 43k to start, officers of course make more (Lt. is about 100k) but without officer status a N.Y. firefighter would need to be on the job for 5 years before he gets anywhere near 100k with his fringe benefits and N.Y. pays their firefighters very well in comparison to some other cities... Here's the link for salary information... I don't want to drag this out but to be perfectly honest I find the "I know a guy" defense used to invalidate the truth when it comes to something of this nature slightly offensive... Again I don't think that is how you meant it to sound but that's how it comes across, I mean if the point wasn't to invalidate my statement why mention your neighbour at all?

If the average firefighter was so well looked after why did Republicans feel the need to block a 7.4 billion dollar health-care bill intended to aid the workers of Sept 11th? What was a 7.4 billion dollar health-care bill even doing on the table if the private system was looking after them so well?... It's because your essential services and military already have socialized healthcare and many of them still can't get proper treatment because the deadbeats bleeding the system dry aren't in Detroit or Louisiana... They're in Washington.

[Airbozo]

While there are always exceptions the average salary of a firefighter in the U.S. is in the 30,000$ to 75,000$ range depending on area, if you know someone "starting" at 100k+ they are an officer and are not representing the national average, using one exceptional example as a means to try and discredit average national statistics doesn't help anything... The "I know a guy who knows a guy so you're wrong" logic never has any actual statistical fact to back it up and believing that sort of rhetoric is why the American populace is so divided when they should be unified against those who are taking their liberties in the name of profit by trying to convince them that "that guy" is the national average and that individuals are only poor temporarily, eventually you will become rich like everyone else in the country... So long as you play by their rules and put them in power.

I know you likely didn't mean it to sound like it did but a basic N.Y. Firefighter makes a littler over 43k to start, officers of course make more (Lt. is about 100k) but without officer status a firefighter would need to be on the job for 5 years before he gets anywhere near 100k with his fringe benefits and N.Y. pays their firefighters very well in comparison to some other cities... Here's the link for salary information... I don't want to drag this out but to be perfectly honest I find the "I know a guy" defense used to invalidate the truth when it comes to something of this nature slightly offensive... Again I don't think that is how you meant it to sound but that's how it comes across, I mean if the point wasn't to invalidate my statement why mention your neighbour at all?

Not sure how you twisted my words into me trying to prove you wrong on anything.

The "I know a guy" information I put out there was for the same reason you brought up "I know a guy" in the first place, to provide an example of a persons situation. People keep bringing up socialized medicine like it is the cure all. It is not and has it's own set of problems as well. What most people don't realize is that in the US if you are sick you can get the medical treatment you need. Is it perfect? Hell no. No system is and I would wager that few are any better.

The rest of your post? What?

[RogueOpportunist]

Not sure how you twisted my words into me trying to prove you wrong on anything.

The "I know a guy" information I put out there was for the same reason you brought up "I know a guy" in the first place, to provide an example of a persons situation. People keep bringing up socialized medicine like it is the cure all. It is not and has it's own set of problems as well. What most people don't realize is that in the US if you are sick you can get the medical treatment you need. Is it perfect? Hell no. No system is and I would wager that few are any better.

The rest of your post? What?

Which part about the rest of it didn't you catch? The fact that most American essential services and all military already operate under a "socialist" health-care plan?

Or that the Republicans at one point blocked a bill intended to give additional health-care to those suffering illness related to their efforts at ground zero?

[Airbozo]

.........................
If the average firefighter was so well looked after why did Republicans feel the need to block a 7.4 billion dollar health-care bill intended to aid the workers of Sept 11th? What was a 7.4 billion dollar health-care bill even doing on the table if the private system was looking after them so well?... It's because your essential services and military already have socialized healthcare and many of them still can't get proper treatment because the deadbeats bleeding the system dry aren't in Detroit or Louisiana... They're in Washington.

Sorry I missed this part...

That bill was a political bullet. It was never going to pass and everyone involved knew it.

IMO (and this may rile some of you up, but pretend I am playing devils advocate) Why should anyone involved with the events that took place on 9-11 get preferential treatment? What makes their job any more important than mine?

(and I do agree with the last line of your post)

[RogueOpportunist]

Well, this is the point where I must respectfully back out of the conversation.

[xr4man]

Kayin, All of us agree that the situation you and your son are in ( and many others) are exactly the situation we (as a collective society) would be providing care for because we are supposed to be a civilized society and take care of those that cannot (key word) provide for themselves. This is part of what makes humans better than the other species on the planet. We can CHOOSE to take care of our sick and wounded instead of culling them from the herd.

The specific abusers of the system are those that CAN contribute to society, but knowingly choose not to, then expect handouts for nothing.

this is what i was trying to get at. thanks for summing it up.

ok, now back to patents and IP.