creative troubles

[Slug Toy]

i was thinking about 3 side by side to get 6. its a possibility, but it adds a little bit of complexity. im not quite there yet... my thoughts progress to things like that over time, but a week isnt enough. im sure ill eventually be talking about some sort of W-motor.... thats actually not a bad idea... a W-motor (i cant remember the name, but its got three cylinders 30 degrees apart instead of 2 at 90 or 60 degrees). see, ill get there, just give me a few more days to think things through.

now, remember i said i had some ideas to simplify and downsize things?

numbers:

1. output, water goes out from here, each cylider has one, and each one has a valve

2. cylinder input, just a hole, no valve, ill probably have more than two per cylinder to reduce resistance

3. hole to make a route between the cylnder block and the top block

4. same as number 3, 3 and 4 join up

5. master input to the cylinder block


ok, i think this may be the best design yet. ill walk you through it. water comes in from the radiator, and goes into the master input, and into the cylinder block. the cylinder block will be made of tubes inside of a box, so there will be space for water to be in there, and not just in the cylinders (this is because the cylinder block will act as a reservoir too). so the water is in the cylinder block, and it travels up through numbers 3 and 4, to get into the top block. the top block also acts as a small reservoir. once the water is in the top block, it goes through the cylinder inputs, and then gets pumped out of the output. one thing i did realize while writing this is ill need walls in the top block to separate each cylinder, or they'll just start transferring water to each other within the pump, and nothing will actually come out.

so this works out to a fairly simple design with the least number of moving parts yet. one master input with a valve, and 6 outputs with vavles... 7 valves. compare that to my first design (12 vavles) and my two stroke crap design (24 valves at the very least) and we have a clear winner so far.

ive got the efficiency of flow pretty much down in my mind now. ill start working on actual cylinder layout now. there are a few ways to do this, and it all depends on what uses the least moving parts again.

[GT40_GearHead]

you my man just climb a notch in my book with this idea, its great i love it(using the block as a res that is sweeet,but i'm not shure if it's gonna with the one master input valve setup.....let me think i'm not shure, the valve may not have time to close), now the hard part: crankshaft

[silverdemon]

don't you need more valves? the water flows into the cilinder when the piston goes down, but if you don't have valves at the cilinder inputs (2 in your picture) the water/oil will flow back into the resevoir instead of going out through the output-port (1)
Or am I missing something?

[Slug Toy]

but i'm not shure if it's gonna with the one master input valve

the design will evolve... all will be solved in time.

don't you need more valves?

in my perfect world, no. the idea would be that as each piston goes down, it increases the volume inside the pump, and the master valve would open. when each piston is a bdc (bottom dead center) the volume is no longer increasing and the master valve would close (no more water flowing in to make it open). then when the piston starts going back up, ideally, the water will go up into the output...... hmmmm.

i just ran through a couple cycles of the pump in my mind. even with a wall in the top block separating each cylinder, the water will still backtrack through the valveless holes. uh oh. now its a necessary design evolution again....

thats what i get for designing at 1 in the morning.. see why my roatry engine probably wouldnt work?

[GT40_GearHead]

thats what i get for designing at 1 in the morning.. see why my roatry engine probably wouldnt work?

the water will still backtrack through the valveless holes

lol, you see what i mean, i'm looking at it the only thing that comes to my mind is OVER-HEAD valves,its the most simple way , but still using the block as a res (love that one), and a nother thing, we are twistng our brains on the valves setup for some time but what about the crackshaft,are you gonna push the pistons one at a time or in pairs(the one by one setup is in my head the best otherwise you could get..... bad suction... i'm shure there is a word for this hmmm "cavitation"? )

BTW: know what you should do? you should make a protype, a 2 cilinder one, the best way to test things

[Slug Toy]

ive got the valves straightened away now

some of it is the same:

1. master input, this time no valve

2. the holes to make a route into the top black again, still no valve

3. cylinder output, one valve each

4. cylinder input, one valve each


so, it works the same way, except this time the design is a sure fire thing. i KNOW it will work. of course, there still will be changes, just for the heck of it. ill probably think of something cool to do.

what about the crackshaft

well that is the next step now. im leaving the valves alone for a while, i dont think its getting any better than what it is at the moment. ive boiled the crankshaft down to two possibilities. in terms of the least moving parts, a hexagonal setup with each cylinder 60 degrees apart is easiest. this will allow for a single section to run all the cylinders.

in terms of space saving, the W setup is the best. this will use twice the number of moving parts as the hexagon idea, but it is still very doable.

ive got to do some drawing and geometry now. ill decide which direction i want to go once i have everything mapped out.

[Slug Toy]

just to mention. i did some math... and assuming a "bore" of 2 inches, and a "stroke" of 3 inches, to get around a 70cfm rate of flow, the pump only needs to operate at 30rpm (1 revolution every 2 seconds). so this can mean i can half the size and go with 60 rpm, or i can stay where it is. ideally, to save space i would want to make it smaller. maybe ill do a little math with a bore of 1.5 inches and a stroke of 2.5 inches.

[silverdemon]

Ok, now that the valve thing is solved, I'll just sit back and watch as your design takes more shape...

who's got my popcorn???

[GT40_GearHead]

one thing, you should ad a tube on the holes that make the link betwin the block and header, a tube there will ,make yore life a lot easyer, because it would alow for some air in that space after all, it will be the res of the setup!
what do you think ??

[Slug Toy]

ideally i wouldnt want any air at all, because it may start making noise if it starts getting into the cylinders or the actual cooling loops. i could add on a separate section to deal with air though. im going to get through this hexagon vs W thing first.