St. Matthew Island

[Lothair]

I'd actually say it's more of a intelligence problem in most cases than "poor food" problem. Plenty of people eat unhealthy food when they could do otherwise, simply because it's "easier".

In a lot of cases, people choose to eat poor food and not go outside to exercise so that they can stay healthy. I think that's an education problem primarily. And it's not entirely even that the food is the problem so much as the exercise. I've known a few families who are healthy through being active, but still eat rather poor food choices such as fast food, easy microwave dinners, etc. Although, they also have real home cooked meals somewhat often as well.

But for poorer folks, considerably poorer, we definitely have a problem with the low quality of food that is available to those people. But then... if the middle class (and upper class, I suppose, but I think they probably eat fairly "organically" being as money isn't an issue for them) would stop being, well, lazy, and just get back into the kitchen, then real food would start to become cheaper, allowing the lower class to have realistic healthy options.

And of course, with exercise, you can eat fairly poorly and still stay healthy.

[d_stilgar]

I'd actually say it's more of a intelligence problem in most cases than "poor food" problem. Plenty of people eat unhealthy food when they could do otherwise, simply because it's "easier".

I definitely think there's two sides to this problem.

#1) Good food has become really really hard to find. Watch Food Inc. I had a good idea of how bad the industrialized food world had become, but this movie made it all the more clear. Healthy food is a lot more difficult and expensive today than it was 40 years ago.

#2) Generations of bad habits. My parents were obese when I was growing up and they have just now committed to losing weight and getting healthy and they've both done awesome, but it has had an effect on me. I'm not fat, but whenever I think of something I want to eat or what to buy at the grocery store, my first thoughts go to junky, unhealthy food. Every time I want a snack I have to consciously think "apple, banana, nuts" or else I go right for the cookies, nutella, and ice cream. Without proper education on good food, it's really hard to know what to buy. Food habits are strong and hard to break and re-learn. I'm not overweight, but I'm struggling with good food habits right now.

#3) Exercise is the other thing that's cropped up. In the 80s when I was young, Nintendo was the big thing, and back then the games weren't engaging enough to keep you playing for hours on end for days at a time. Today I could play many of the games I own for hours on end days at a time. Shoot, I've put 460+ hours into Left 4 Dead 2 alone. In the past that time would have been spent doing other stuff, probably outside and active. For other people, Facebook is engaging enough to keep them from doing anything. And there's still TV. There's just so much good media to consume that it can take all your time.

[x88x]

Doesn't necessarily mean better or worse

IMO it would be both better and worse. But then I have moral/etc issues with GE in general, so others might feel differently. GE has provided concrete benefits, for example, vitamin enriched rice. Unfortunately, the corporate control of it has caused some pretty horrific problems (check out Food Inc; it's even on NetFlix streaming), some immediate, some long-reaching. Like so many things, I think it's not the technology in and of itself that is the problem, but rather the implementation.

At any rate most of what we do to try and provide food clothing and shelter seems to be retroactive to the populations gluttonous use of resources, want an example of that childhood obesity. In combination with most kids not going out and playing and the availability of gluttonous junk we have a health problem that had never even existed 30 years ago.

Not really sure what any of that has to do with GE food...

[Snowman]

Not really sure what any of that has to do with GE food...

I think all the genetic engineering has been a retroactive fix for a greater problem. It is to the point where we are so hard up for sustenance that we are cloning and engineering our food, which to me is bad juju. I don't think it is ethically or morally right by any stretch of the imagination.

[Lothair]

It is to the point where we are so hard up for sustenance that we are cloning and engineering our food, which to me is bad juju.

Why do you say that?

I don't really have a preference on this issue. It's just like modern medicine in my opinion. It's both bad and good, and it could get both worse or better. So I'm just curious to know others opinions on the topic, whether they have actual reasons or if it's just a feeling, or intuition I suppose.

[dr.walrus]

Selective breeding, and going in and chopping it up in a laboratory and adding things to it that may have never been there through cross pollination is something different. I am not sure what your "go swing" comment means but never once did I say the developing world should just suffer while the rest of us are comfortable. Not once did I say anyone should suffer for that matter do I come off that sadistic? At any rate most of what we do to try and provide food clothing and shelter seems to be retroactive to the populations gluttonous use of resources, want an example of that childhood obesity. In combination with most kids not going out and playing and the availability of gluttonous junk we have a health problem that had never even existed 30 years ago.

I think the fear of things 'mutating out of control' is as unfounded and ridiculous as the fear of a powerful computer 'deciding to take over the world', and allowing the poor to starve based on our senseless fears is not just factually wrong, it's also highly ethically wrong.

[Snowman]

Why do you say that?

I don't really have a preference on this issue. It's just like modern medicine in my opinion. It's both bad and good, and it could get both worse or better. So I'm just curious to know others opinions on the topic, whether they have actual reasons or if it's just a feeling, or intuition I suppose.

We are pumping cloned food and genetically engineered stuff out before it even has a chance to be tested, meanwhile the fda regulations on it says they don't have to tell you which is real food and which isn't.

I think the fear of things 'mutating out of control' is as unfounded and ridiculous as the fear of a powerful computer 'deciding to take over the world', and allowing the poor to starve based on our senseless fears is not just factually wrong, it's also highly ethically wrong.

No one said mutating out of control, but nature is always evolving always changing and when you introduce strings of dna that may not have been there before there is absolutely no way for you to tell how it is going to mutate because it has never been done before. For example what if they crossed the growth genetics of a peanut plant with that of corn to make it grow faster. They have no responsibility to report this to you because technically it is still corn. In one generation it mutates to more closely resemble the peanut plant and has enough of the right chemical make up that every person across the planet with a peanut allergy keeled over dead while eating sweet corn.

Will that string of events come to transpire? More than likely not I picked two arbitrary variables for the example. The problem is that a lot of these seeds are not being tested or have been and are still released for economic gain (the situation in India as I mentioned before.) From a standpoint of a farm owner that raise all natural grass fed beef the thought of eating the growth hormone stuff was bad enough now it is also going to be cloned and fed genetically engineered crop seems like a recipe for disaster to me.

I will also reiterate that I never once said anyone should starve, or otherwise suffer based on their socioeconomic status if that were so I would probably be one of those people starving and suffering.

[dr.walrus]

We are pumping cloned food and genetically engineered stuff out before it even has a chance to be tested, meanwhile the fda regulations on it says they don't have to tell you which is real food and which isn't.

Define 'real food'. How on earth is it not real?
Elaborate on this 'no testing'. Really?
How on earth would cloning make an animal unsafe?

No one said mutating out of control

Yes you did

you start with engineering it and then it could mutate out of control

but nature is always evolving always changing and when you introduce strings of dna that may not have been there before

yeah this is just how life works. Everywhere. That's implicit in the process of how you were born.

In one generation it mutates to more closely resemble the peanut plant and has enough of the right chemical make up that every person across the planet with a peanut allergy keeled over dead while eating sweet corn.

This is nonsense. Absolute nonsense. You just made that up.

Will that string of events come to transpire?

No. it doesn't make any sense.

I will also reiterate that I never once said anyone should starve, or otherwise suffer based on their socioeconomic status if that were so I would probably be one of those people starving and suffering.

No, but this psuedo-scientific fear is holding back a science that could save millions of lives a year. People can and do starve based on their socioeconomic status, every day. Shouldn't we be trying to stop that rather than talking about 'juju'? I mean, really?

[Snowman]

No, but this psuedo-scientific fear is holding back a science that could save millions of lives a year. People can and do starve based on their socioeconomic status, every day. Shouldn't we be trying to stop that rather than talking about 'juju'? I mean, really?

Your right because the course of the conversation here has bearing on what really happens. Your absolutely correct better not talk about the end of the world because then it will happen.

I did misspeak before I did not remember using the wording out of control for that I am the fool but you have absolutely no idea what genetically engineering crops could turn into and neither do I. To claim that we know what could happen by combining dna that in a normal circumstance never would be psuedo-scientific.

As to the bolded portion, it continually seems that you think I am promoting this and I am not. You view what I have to say as complete and utter rubbish that is fine but show me the long term effects of cloning beef and genetically engineering crops. I will give you one number stemming from the genetic crops 125,000. Number of suicides attributed to the crop failure from GM seeds. There are no long term studies because nobody has thought about the long term. We are just now seeing all the side effects from the constant over use of antibiotics and growth hormones in livestock and those practices have been going on for decades. If we don't pay attention to whats going on we will just keep shooting ourselves in the foot.

[Lothair]

We are pumping cloned food and genetically engineered stuff out before it even has a chance to be tested, meanwhile the fda regulations on it says they don't have to tell you which is real food and which isn't.

Do you have a source of information on that? I always thought we tested everything? Thanks!

Also, keep it civilized everyone. No need to be rude. Whether you believe someone is misinformed or not is no reason or cause to be. I don't want to have to play "flame wars" song from College Humor. :p