The Canyon That God Built?

[jaxspades]

If you honor God, you have to obey him.

To disobey him is spitting in his face and dishonoring him.

It is a strict doctrine. Read it. It's right there many times in many different ways that it is a strict doctrine.

Psalm 119:30, Exodus 24:12, John 17:17--these all say that the Bible is true, it is strict commands.

Here's an interesting one...
2 Timothy 4:3

And another
1 Timothy 6:3--this one even calls the Word of God the "sound instruction"--sounds like strict doctrine to me.

Titus 1:9, Isaiah 45:19

The Bible IS NOT guidelines. It is doctrine.
It is a book on how to live, and how you are saved, it is not something that you just take 'a bit of this, a bit of that' and throw away what you do not like to read.

You do not have to believe it, and I will not scorn you for it, but please do not insult my religion or my God by saying His word is not true or strict.

I'm sorry, but I know it is more than that. It even says so itself, and I think I proved my point with the seven passages I picked that it even claims straight forward that it is not just 'guidelines'.

[Slug Toy]

I'm sorry, but I know it is more than that. It even says so itself, and I think I proved my point with the seven passages I picked that it even claims straight forward that it is not just 'guidelines'.

but then, the argument could be made that if you're a responsible person, you shouldnt need to be told how to live.

i for one dont take kindly to being told how to do things, especially how to run my life. when i hear about the bible being more than just guidelines and suggestions, i get a sense of restriction to put it lightly. being told what to do and how to do it takes away a fundamental freedom that im not willing to sacrifice no matter what. i really cant understand how anyone CAN do that, but i know they do. it just seems so irrational. i think that anyone who uses a book to govern their life is losing out big time.

[jaxspades]

I don't think so--I feel pretty free. If you remember what Jesus said, he summed up all 10 commandments into 1--Love. I like that.

I don't need sin, I'll let God tell me to steer clear of it. I don't want to sin anyways, I feel bad when I do things like lie, or hurt someone's feelings.

Besides, is Evil really all that necessary?

No. I like living within God's bounds--I'm not perfect, I still sin, and here's where I get comfort--even if I do sin, God loves me, because he saved me from sin. I guess I am pretty free after all-free from sin, death, and Satan.

[Zephik]

If you honor God, you have to obey him.
If god could somehow prove to me of his existence and then tell me that I should follow this or that in this or that way. I would "obey" him. Not because he told me to, but because if my blood father asked me to do something, I would do it out of the love for my father. If not for him, I would not exist. So it would be no different for my "heavenly" father who created myself as well as my father. If god does exist that is, which I have yet to discover. Thats how I feel at least.

To disobey him is spitting in his face and dishonoring him.
If I were to disobey my father, I suppose you could say that I would dishonoring him. So I can understand why you feel this way and thinking of it in this way, I would have to agree.

It is a strict doctrine. Read it. It's right there many times in many different ways that it is a strict doctrine.

Psalm 119:30, Exodus 24:12, John 17:17--these all say that the Bible is true, it is strict commands.

Here's an interesting one...
2 Timothy 4:3

And another
1 Timothy 6:3--this one even calls the Word of God the "sound instruction"--sounds like strict doctrine to me.

Titus 1:9, Isaiah 45:19

The Bible IS NOT guidelines. It is doctrine.
It is a book on how to live, and how you are saved, it is not something that you just take 'a bit of this, a bit of that' and throw away what you do not like to read.
This is like what someone said before, finding answers to the bible from teh bible just doesn't make sense to me. But you are right about the take a bit o this and a bit o that. Many people do that and if you ask anyone who studies the bible, whether religious or not, will tell you that if you do that you can twist it around to however you want. You have to take the entire bible in as a whole and not focus on one passage or another. Thats what I think at least.

You do not have to believe it, and I will not scorn you for it, but please do not insult my religion or my God by saying His word is not true or strict.
I do not think he was insulting your religion or god. This is, let me remind you, an "open minded" discussion. We share what we know and believe but we do not go so far as to "correct" someone. That would only and simply prove our ignorance and stupidity. So think of what he said as what he thinks and/or believes (like what you think and believe) and not as he was trying to correct you or insult you in anyway. After all, you can believe in whatever you want, as we can and do too, but it doesn't mean any of us are right. That is why we are having this discussion in the first place. So we can be more open minded people and not fools who think only themselves to be right.

I'm sorry, but I know it is more than that. It even says so itself, and I think I proved my point with the seven passages I picked that it even claims straight forward that it is not just 'guidelines'.
I personally would have to read the bible more thoroughly before I can comment on this. As I stand now, I see the bible as guidelines because I do not believe in god as of yet. But then again, what I have read, it is always in the sense of "you should or should not do this or that" and not "well I would like if you did not do this or that, but you can anyways". So I guess I am going to have to agree with the bible being more like strict rules rather than guidelines. Anyone else have a different view on this?

but then, the argument could be made that if you're a responsible person, you shouldn't need to be told how to live.

I agree

I for one don't take kindly to being told how to do things, especially how to run my life. when i hear about the bible being more than just guidelines and suggestions, i get a sense of restriction to put it lightly. being told what to do and how to do it takes away a fundamental freedom that I'm not willing to sacrifice no matter what. i really cant understand how anyone CAN do that, but i know they do. it just seems so irrational. i think that anyone who uses a book to govern their life is losing out big time.

I also agree with this, because this is how I feel as well. Another reason why I think the bible isn't a true "holy book". I mean, it says to not do this and not do that, but why? Again, probably because I have not read enough of it, but why can't we do some things? Like homosexuality? It says that "god" says that it is wrong and we should not do it. Why? I can understand that if we were to all turn homosexual that our planet would probably die off. But I don't think that is likely to happen, especially with medical science. As well as the fact that the entire population of earth would ever become entirely homosexual. But that is the only reason I can think of as to why it could be "wrong". I just can't bring myself to see it as being wrong, gross maybe, but not wrong.

[jaxspades]

God made us male and female--he gave us women for companions, so that we wouldn't be homosexual. Plus, He did this so that we had a sure set way of procreating,a nd to set up the family unit, which is the fundamental building block of society.

It's hard to build a family when the Mom and Dad are actually just 2 dads or 2 moms. It's possible through adoption, but then the children will be psychologically affected. I learned that in Psych class, and I agree--Women are just naturally better at being moms then men are, and everyone needs a Mom and a Dad.

Also, I suppose we wouldn't die out, we would clone, but I hope I never see the day where we clone humans...

I'm sorry I took his words that way, I shouldn't have. I guess I'm so used to defending myself, because, let's face it--Christians get persecuted. Thanks for pointing that out to me, I shouldn't have taken his words so impolitely.

[Slug Toy]

oh, no, you arent being impolite at all. we're just debating here. you can defend yourself until the cows come home, and we'll keep... counter-attacking. at least we cant beat each other up. ive been in some debates that spiraled down into a brawl. go figure.. they were about religion.

Besides, is Evil really all that necessary?

i would say yes. if it werent, why would god have made satan? why wouldnt god help everyone instead of some? standing by and watching misfortune is just as bad as causing it in my books.

and besides, evil can be relative. in a perfect world, the small things would stick out as an evil, such as improper table settings. maybe thats why the eccentric rich people get all snooty about it... they arent exposed to every day troubles, so they find other things to trouble them. so maybe to an eccentric two salad forks side by side is murder.

I guess I am pretty free after all-free from sin, death, and Satan.

haha, let me know how that death thing works out. you can call me in a hundred years or so at 1-800-6-ft-down. its free for the first eternity.

im just curious. whats god's stance on gay animals? monkeys do it sometimes. there are shows on regularly about homosexuality in the animal kingdom. do they go to hell? actually what of animals in general? heaven, hell, or nothing? how about the more self aware ones like elephants and primates... and squid? they communicate and appear to understand right and wrong... do they have a place in heaven if they are good? man isnt the only smart one, so surely heaven cant be reserved purely for us. the animals deserve it just as much, if not more because man has cause oh so much evil.

[DaveW]

The Bible IS NOT guidelines. It is doctrine.

I've been trying to avoid this thread, but I'm curious as to how you can say this is doctrine when the bible is clearly so open to interpretation, and therefore corruption.

-Dave

[Ironcat]

The Bible is NOT open to interpretation.... it is what it is.

If it was read the way it was written, then it would make perfect sense.

The problem is that it was written and rewritten in Aramaic, and in Hebrew, and in Greek, translated, and rephrased by the powers that be at the time.

It was written by about 40 people over roughly 1500 years.

It gets a mite confusing.

[DaveW]

The Bible is NOT open to interpretation.... it is what it is.

If it was read the way it was written, then it would make perfect sense.

The problem is that it was written and rewritten in Aramaic, and in Hebrew, and in Greek, translated, and rephrased by the powers that be at the time.

It was written by about 40 people over roughly 1500 years.

It gets a mite confusing.

Are you implying that the bible has been corrupted?

-Dave

[AJ@PR]

The Bible - The Greatest Open Source Story Ever Told